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dr.donut
User
Dec 28, 2016, 1:03 PM
Post #1 of 21
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Before the holidays my son told me that the batt. light came on and the headlights dimmed , I guess one time so I figured the alternator was bad or on the way out . Drove the car in the driveway , started up ,no dash lights came on ,got looking around and thought the belt seemed loose . Didn't touch it over the weekend , got out there today and wanted to get it on ramps so I didn't have to bend over it as much , started it up got it on ramps and noticed batt light was on. Revved it up and it would go out , shut it off .Realized the positive eyelet on the alt. was not bolted on but just resting there I had it off thinking I was going to replace the alt . Then thought an alt. either works or doesn't , the belt wasn't that loose where it would totally slip and the problem may have been the connection the whole time. Put the nut back on the pos. connection and went to start it and now I got zilch , no start ,no dash lights , nothing. Got 12 volts at the batt but not on that pos nut on the alt. , meter does show something but less than a volt .Any thoughts on what happened ? Fusable link of some kind ? even with a bad bad alt. that connection should show the 12 volts .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 28, 2016, 2:41 PM
Post #2 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Some scattered thoughts before going deeper:
* 1. Watch out for ramps unless quality ones and block the wheel. Must be on solid surface. Never mind the car I hate those!
* 2. Any messing with an alternator for any reason you really should disconnect the batter BUT more importantly learn and own how to use a "memory Saver" device. Check for what will work for you car. When using one do not open doors and disable any hood light.
OK: You tested for voltage at the battery bolt and was bad. The post is the battery the bolt goes to tight the clamp so if you reading was correct it wasn't making contact worth a dang. That alone is trouble as if an engine is running and loses connection to the batter either bad connection or some run cars without it connected which is almost certainly going to cause a problem almost always and not always the same problems.
* Fusible link wire would show wrinkles just BTW.
Before finding out if any damages was done to a body control computer (yup - not good) do fix up the connections at both battery cables. Engine off, try to do with a memory saver but think you've passes that.
Charge battery with a charger not just the car or have it checked.
On memory savers if you are looking for one: You also need to know if you cigar lighter works when engine is off and keys are out. If not you can't use that for the cheaper quick store bought memory saver. Check that out as I can't know each year which power ports, lighters do what with car off and key out so choose another way if they show no power.
There's no need to lose memory up to harming things with messing with live power always with engine off.
Hope this isn't a nightmare but those things have to be good or there's not much to check yet,
T
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dr.donut
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Dec 29, 2016, 7:17 AM
Post #3 of 21
(1659 views)
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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The batt needed a charge I got it inside charging and the batt light and headlights dimming wasn't an isolated incident so after the storm I'll replace the alt. I pulled it in the driveway and no batt light was on the dash ,I thought batts fade away and alt. just up and die , I need to relax , have a donut or something .Thanks again .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 29, 2016, 8:14 AM
Post #4 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Put a plain analog volt/ohm meter on your list. Still ~$10 @ Wally World.
Alternators can be intermittent. Brushes can hang up the way they are held and some if you just rev up engine would charge and "batt" light go out and same if you tapped on it, it might snap to charging.
It's good info to watch it by voltage from engine off, engine at idle, revved up and again with a load of everything - lights, blower motor, rear defroster all on should stay over 13V + a tad. If it can't there's a problem.
Just FYI a battery at rest after a full charge should read just about exactly 12.6V which the meter I mentioned won't see that accurate but close enough. While running never drop below the 13V mark, even a bit higher or up to about 14.5V is fine.
You don't have to take a battery out to charge it unless charger and situation demands it.
Do not try to fast charge a battery. I know some have settings for that but unless some kind of emergency the slower amp setting of a charger is easier on battery and a better charge. Automatic shut off a huge plus for any!
T
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dr.donut
User
Jan 2, 2017, 3:26 PM
Post #5 of 21
(1635 views)
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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First in line is an 80 amp fuse that blew from running the car with the Alt. pos. connection resting on the stud without the nut, got a new bus fuse and all seems good , funny thing though it didn't blow while it was running , it must have fried when I shut it off because next time I turned the key there was nuttin . Old Alt. is out and new one goes in at next opportunity . I have an old bargain multi meter that works but some connections aren't always "tight". Next one will be better , hopefully paying more will get you more , case closed , thanks .
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 2, 2017, 6:33 PM
Post #6 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Why would the nut be missing off the alternator lug?
Be sure that the alternator mounting nuts and adjuster are installed and tight. If that alternator loses connection with its mount while the engine is running, it will spike and destroy the engine computer. They had problems with that.
Honda came out with a publication for it:
SOURCE: Honda Service News August 2004 TITLE: Engine Won't Start? Check for Loose Alternator Bolts APPLIES TO: 2001-04 Civic SERVICE TIP: Got a 2001-04 Civic in your shop with any or all of these symptoms? - The engine cranks but it won't start. - The MIL comes on. - The immobilizer indicator blinks while the engine cranks. - The HDS can't communicate with the ECM/PCM. Check for loose alternator bolts. If these bolts are loose for any reason such as the alternator was R&R'ed or an accessory A/C was installed on a DX model at the dealership, the alternator can overcharge and fry the ECM/PCM. If the alternator bolts are loose, tighten them, and try restarting the engine. If the engine still won't start, then check the ECM/PCM connector for battery voltage and ground. If you're reading battery voltage and ground at the connector, then replace the ECM/PCM. Keep in mind, though, any ECM/PCM damage that's caused by loose alternator bolts from A/C installation or body repair isn't covered by warranty.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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dr.donut
User
Jan 2, 2017, 7:06 PM
Post #7 of 21
(1615 views)
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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The nut was off THe pos. terminal because I was in the middle of removing the ALT. because of an occasional batt. light on the dash and dimming headlights , I started it up to get it on ramps so I didn't have to slouch over as much , wasn't paying attention and left the nut off .Luckily the fuse went and not the "brain" I hope ,after a new bus fuse I only did key on engine off . You're saying the Alt. ground is it's bolt on connection to the mounts and should be secure ? I clean everything up on my work , do you know the torque for the two Alt. bolts ? 35 ft. lbs. ? I don't think the belt tension has to be super tight just reasonable like the old days before tension pulleys . Nothings going to happen till I get the time , the little tensioner adjusting bolt for the power steering pump got bent loosening it's master , can't find anything in the bucket for that so I'll try the industrial fastener place or honda dealer if I really have to depending on how much they want .(yikes)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 3, 2017, 12:33 AM
Post #8 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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dr. donut: Do you have this style belt adjustment on this that got bent? Specifically the bolt and nut with arrow pointing marked "A" at top right in this diagram - generic not you car.
   - Fig. Location of the alternator mounting bolts and adjuster bolt C-626 2.0L (FS) engine.
**************
Those are a nightmare if not constantly lubed OR if you are going to mess with those a WEEK doused in Power Blaster solvent or they fail, bend, break or something that wastes all kinds of time and a hunt for parts. I think once I went junk yarding for the funky nut+bolt combo thing - others waited for solvents or rethreaded maybe? Been a while.
IDK - This has to get solved before you can even proceed. Last and possibly only one (regular customers only by me - means I lubed it without anyone asking all along the life of a car) knowing this would suk.
If like that it's now first not part of whatever the original problem is or was or problems caused by leaving a nut off and blowing a fuse could be its own nightmare.
No - I don't know if you can buy those easily but probably if you can describe it better than I can find it aftermarket as a kit and toss it all? Just don't happen to have seen them. Would be wildly common to bend this stuff up,
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jan 3, 2017, 12:37 AM)
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dr.donut
User
Jan 3, 2017, 5:19 AM
Post #9 of 21
(1590 views)
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Nope , mine isn't like that . (civic LX) The tensioner for the Alt. is fine , the one for the power steering pump is the small one that goes through a small bolt on bracket on top and into the bolt head with a small threaded hole , taking the nut off on the other end tweeked the thin adjuster rod as the bolt head is round ,, I can bend it back and use it but rather not ,, I'll go to the fastener place first then look on line , I went through my bolts and my brothers trays ,this is an odd ball about three inches long with wings like a wing nut on the end , I tried loading pics. before but couldn't follow through . Good looking out guys .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 3, 2017, 6:39 AM
Post #10 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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OK - Just to note that type among many that suk. Rounded off head they make tools for you need to chose which type space allows. Replacements and this nightmare takes a lot of tools to know size you need, thread pitch if you are going to use hardware store parts or some not possible. Yikes - a wing nut type end may be tough if that one is in trouble.
Tap and die sets to fix the one you have. Just the tools for dealing with feisty stuff gets into the thousands of bucks for me and never enough.
This discussion isn't even fixing the car yet just the snags along the way that are common. If your car and keeping them waste some bucks on still preferred WD-40 just spray around stuff periodically all things that might be something you'll be at later.
For pics here. A problem for me since the get go. Try to put a pic elsewhere like a site like Photobucket, TinyPics to name two. Other is find the exact item in Google Images or other search and see if it will copy for you. Not a chance I can know your device, its settings or what is not going to show?
Tom
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dr.donut
User
Jan 4, 2017, 10:25 AM
Post #11 of 21
(1562 views)
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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I posted a pic of the bolt in question on albany ny craigs list free items if you want to see . it may take them a bit to get it up , I was going to send it via personal replies on C. J. but tom had no e-mail , any ways the fastener store didn;'t have one , they said it was a .75 fine thread I'm going to check the scrap yards after seeing simular ones on line for $25** Also seen forums where these things snap and thats what I want to avoid trying to bend it even with a little heat .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 4, 2017, 10:49 AM
Post #12 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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dr. donut - see a PM I'm sending in a minute - a bolt shouldn't be this difficult nor expensive but think you'll need to go hunting yourself for a used one or whole kit of them if new? Tom
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dr.donut
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Jan 5, 2017, 12:15 PM
Post #13 of 21
(1522 views)
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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The honda dealer has just the one bolt I bent for $8** , scrap yards didn't want to take it off a complete engine , it'll be there tomorrow morn. , Alt. is in and going to fire it up after lunch . Batt. is totally charged and the bracket for Alt. ground is clean down to some metal , I don't think they did that last time didn't look like it .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 5, 2017, 12:29 PM
Post #14 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Hey for the $8 bucks is nothing vs all the running around. Do lube that crap up with something so it CAN'T do this again.
It's totally understood why a junkyard doesn't want to mess up a thing on a whole good engine. A buyer (like me) would be bullshat if a whole one was good and parts already off of it if KNOWN good and they usually do.
Good luck. Repeat - lube stuff that will cause this grief now with a spray or grease that's rubber friendly and almost can't wash off plus tolerates heat which leaves silicone products IMO,
T
(edit added)
I like WD-40 products - now thick silicone spray or thinner. Regular WD-40 BTW is a fish oil mostly and usually harmless to rubber so far for me. DON'T FORGET HOOD LATCH AND DOOR HINGES/LATCHES! OMG are they a nightmare when broken or stuck! ..........
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jan 5, 2017, 12:38 PM)
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dr.donut
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Jan 6, 2017, 2:35 PM
Post #15 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Got it all done , Kids taking a ride right now . The dealer was my last choice for a bolt ,if I had known . I figure these small parts shouldn't be tightened like they were and thats why they bend and break .Autozoo had these for other foreign cars that break more frequently , ., I tightened the wing bolts for belt tension by hand then one more around with a wrench and that seemed good and the guy at the parts counter said the same thing .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 7, 2017, 12:31 AM
Post #16 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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"Autozoo" crack me up again! It's the closes place to me so do use them almost always matching up parts in person that they are correct.
This "sewing machine" grade of belt adjusting is marginal as said all along. Be careful belt if broken in from new isn't too tight if it takes a measuring tool for deflection to know as if left too tight it's hard on any bearing on that belt. When a belt is new you leave it just slightly too tight and check again as most would stretch to a final length rather quickly by time or miles and then can forget it for a good time,
T
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dr.donut
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Jan 7, 2017, 7:41 AM
Post #17 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Autozoo was a typo but it looked good , I was really at advanced auto , is there a difference ? One thing I steer clear of is car quest , I've had problems with their parts but you'll save $$ there on gas tanks and radiators . I don't like to shop around I like to go buy the part and git er done but I also don't like paying an extra $80** either ,it is what it is . Thanks again .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 7, 2017, 9:18 AM
Post #18 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Speak for myself and "might" have called these places 'autosnoooze' and so forth. Nothing personal about the outlets at all nor people just doing their jobs as intended.
The term is to an older tech (some of us) the type places that sell more car wax, floor mats, air fresheners and LED crap for decorations than car parts.
I do like the "LIFETIME" warranty for myself as I keep stuff forever and they'll be sorry someday!
Back to reality: I mean it for lubing things never mentioned in any periodic list from a car maker. The stupid locks, latches, cables, parking brake cables too a ton of that can be prevented from busting forever.
Not needing silly unique parts to begin with really helps get things done rather than a hunt for a dumb special bolt like this!
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 7, 2017, 11:31 AM
Post #19 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Car Quest is a franchise operation so most every store is independently owned. One store's mistakes don't effect the rest of the stores.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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dr.donut
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Jan 7, 2017, 3:29 PM
Post #20 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Parts is parts , , I guess . This one place was called "jones'" with the owners name on it , then a carquest sign and recently under advanced auto , there's another advanced auto not a mile away , then more un-common is pep bois ,O'riely many miles away , I don't know who makes it and who puts a label on it I just want things to line up and not throw codes ,and spending more hasn't always given best results .At least I don't have to walk , I'd certainly hate to buy a brand new car and have a recall or something like that ,
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 7, 2017, 3:57 PM
Post #21 of 21
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Re: 2002 civic 1.7
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Any specific place could be and carry good or lousy. Brands aren't as dependable as they once were and price doesn't mean better or worse with everything.
I just miss the very few total parts professionals who by knowing them know instantly which is best or even tell you that the less expensive something is actually better.
It's mean out there sometimes. Have gone to a dealer and still get aftermarket parts! In fairness sometimes the aftermarket is the better part!
Hard to follow all of it or much of it. Some suspension and front end parts I have been very brand loyal to when I really cared same with certain brake parts also,
T
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