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2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Bmg1827
Novice
Aug 14, 2020, 5:31 AM
Post #1 of 18
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2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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2007 Dodge Caravan 3.8l
65,158
Forgive my lack of sophisticated terminology. My husband is the brains and hands on this. I’m just frustrated, anxious, and looking for ideas of where to go next.
Problem started about a month ago. I went to leave one day and only got a single “click” when turning the key. Immediately assumed the starter and replaced it that evening- with no luck immediately after installation. After a few more tries, started up and seemed good.
Within 48hrs, the problem returned. Removing the negative for a few minutes and replacing seemed to get things moving again, so ran with that until husband could do further diagnostics on his day off; which turned up nothing.
Battery was old, so replaced this as well. Van ran for several days without any issues and then back to its tricks.
Sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn’t. Husband ordered new PCM, at a loss with no codes to go on.
While waiting for PCM to arrive, van sat for about a week after being unable to start for several days. Went out the night before PCM arrival and it started up first try. Installed PCM and started up after key cycling. We went out every few hours after to test and van continued to start without hesitation. Next morning, no crank, no start again.
We’re at a loss.
Battery is fully charged.
Starter was replaced.
PCM replaced.
Dash lights, radio, headlights, etc are all functional.
No CEL.
We had 1 incident that has not repeated where we parked the car, shut it off, pressed buttons to open sliders, and the entire car died. Disconnected negative, reconnected, attempted to start and electronics died again. Later, while driving home, red dot was blinking on dash. Has not come back on at all.
We HAVE to get this thing figured out ASAP. It is our only family vehicle and we have two young children with another on the way.
Thank you for any suggestions you have to offer.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 14, 2020, 5:49 AM
Post #2 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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STOP throwing parts at the problem.
These issues are found through systematic troubleshooting, not buying parts. There was absolutely no justification to replace a PCM.
You start out by removing and cleaning all battery connections and cable connections.
Here is the tool you need to diagnose this problem. You will need someone with a little understanding of electrical circuits and diagrams. I can answer any specific questions.
Here is the location of the relay
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 14, 2020, 5:52 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 14, 2020, 6:33 AM
Post #3 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Outstanding diagram Hammer! I can read/see that one. OP = bmg1827:
Just the first thought on this behavior smacks of lousy battery cable(s) if only one spot or connection so much gets lost. Just hearing you say it just clicks and later snaps out of that attitude.
Low mile, probably cared for vehicle like this now some age doesn't like a load on it for cranking and those dual doors (another load) killed it smacks of loss of power from battery - that's it don't overthink it.
If need be replace ends where shown in diagram are heavy gauge wire from battery to engine block and starter motor already touched if replaced was not noted any issue but those matter too as much as at battery that YOU keep taking the ground off of. Quit that if possible it's junk metal doesn't take much to ruin just that clamp.
IDK, it's like I can smell this one thru a dang computer?
Tom
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Bmg1827
Novice
Aug 14, 2020, 6:34 AM
Post #4 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Thank you! I have passed these along to him. He mentioned looking at relays tonight. I know he has looked at some of the wiring already. I was against the replacement of the PCM, but this is not even remotely my territory.
I remembered some additional things after I posted—
We replaced the battery terminals. They were a wreck, so this needed to happen anyway.
Prior to this problem starting, the CEL would come on during drives of 20mi or more. After shutting the car off and turning it back on later, the light would be back off.
I believe I remember him also saying he had replaced the automatic shut off relay. When he did this, the van started right away but later the problem returned.
I’m not sure if any of that makes any difference to your suggestion.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 14, 2020, 6:37 AM
Post #5 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Quote you ">We replaced the battery terminals. They were a wreck, so this needed to happen anyway.<"
That's it. They stunk new and replacements may be worse?? Still there's the other ends all power only as good as the weakest link, Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 14, 2020, 6:42 AM
Post #6 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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My advice was to start testing and stop throwing parts at it so no, that hasn't changed.
The ASD (autoshutdown) is the main power relay for the operating system. Again, nothing to do with this problem.
The CEL light coming on doesn't tell me anything unless someone had it scanned to get the stored codes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Bmg1827
Novice
Aug 14, 2020, 6:48 AM
Post #7 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Only code we have ever retrieved was something for Evap.
He will use your diagrams tonight and I’ll report back, thank you both again! I am fed up with not having a vehicle to get my kids from place to place.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 14, 2020, 7:00 AM
Post #8 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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OK, you can put that code on the back burner for a while. That's nothing to do with your problem.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 14, 2020, 9:31 AM
Post #9 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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bmg: Still bugging me about the new terminals to fix it didn't apparently so it's easy to rule those out. Not so fast, decent cable ends are BRASS do cost a penny. OE is useless junk so are to cheap U-bolt ends but could if soldered those in.
Now a problem is solder stinks and so does flux I'm angry at making part lead (metal Pb) solder with stinky rosin core that worked first time. Even Walmart has a soldering iron that would work only about $5 or some flame ones with butane don't waste your $$ on stuff for one use.
They are a horror new is a MOPAR brilliant and village idiots with electricity. Many are - those matter totally do get cleaned or corrode are junk metal and it's acid there.
Do even print HT's diagram it's great. Now note where relays and wires are in relation to battery again MOPAR will put the critical stuff right under it and it harms all that stuff maybe not this one but a lot! Placing parts in in the DNA of them put thing right in harm's way just look around under hood.
Shield stuff and use electric grease back before anything wrong it's fine for decades but not if that's never done. Way too common to me just ticked about quick solder now have tons - no comment on where found.
I really want you to win this there's two similar right across the street from me SAME issues on both. Good luck, Tom
Note (MOPAR = is old name for anything by Chrysler Motors) you may not use the term it's old now......
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Bmg1827
Novice
Aug 18, 2020, 7:38 AM
Post #10 of 18
(2042 views)
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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I am SO sorry that I am just getting back to this. Unfortunately, our 4yr old fell a few days ago and broke his arm and will need surgery later this week, so the van troubleshooting had to be put on the back burner. Because my husband hasn't had the chance to do much besides replace the battery cables (they looked awful - but alas, this did not solve our problem) I decided to hop out there this morning, utilizing the diagrams provided and after doing a little youtube searching for videos on what the heck I was doing.
I popped the hood just a few minutes ago (after my husband failed to start the van this AM) and swapped the starter motor relay for the blower motor relay that I knew was functional. Hopped in and the van started right up, but my front blowers no longer worked. Swapped them back and no start, but functional blowers.
I assume that I have just discovered the root of our problem, please correct me if I am wrong?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 18, 2020, 7:48 AM
Post #11 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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WOW !! Take care of yourself! Forget cars but you may have nailed it. That in the trade is "Swaptronics" does have some value may just have solved this for now and YOU get well!
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 18, 2020, 8:11 AM
Post #12 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Good job with diagnostics!
Glad to hear it was a simple fix.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Bmg1827
Novice
Aug 18, 2020, 2:02 PM
Post #13 of 18
(2008 views)
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Husband just got home and before running to buy a relay, opted to recreate my findings for confirmation. He couldn’t recreate it. After swapping the relays again, van starts and blower motor works fine. Swap them back, same thing. We’ve left the blower one in the starter spot and vice versa for the time being - usually it’s an overnight that reveals the van’s true colors.
In the meantime, I’m open to other ideas in case this turns out to be wrong.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 18, 2020, 2:08 PM
Post #14 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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I'm satisfied that you found an intermittent problem. I would go ahead and replace the relay and don't let him forget who found it.........LOL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 18, 2020, 3:53 PM
Post #15 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Good news still as Hammer said do it anyway. THEY CAN BE INTERMITTENT, SOME WILL WORK WHEN WHACKED FOR A DAY, WEEK OR AGES BUT TOSS IT ANYWAY.
Take care of yourself - back to that this should be fixed as you found - just go ahead IMO,
Tom
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Bmg1827
Novice
Aug 19, 2020, 5:35 AM
Post #16 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Just as I feared, we’re back to the same issue this morning, even with the relays switched. Where to next, gentlemen? Husband is home today is tinker once we’ve returned home from a few tests for our son.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 19, 2020, 5:44 AM
Post #17 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Check the socket you pulled that relay out of to see if there are any burnt contacts there.
You can use the wiring diagram I gave you to test the relay contacts to determine if all the proper signals are arriving.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 19, 2020, 6:22 AM
Post #18 of 18
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Re: 2007 Caravan, no crank no start
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Touche HT: Now chances are the "socket" end doubt two, actually now 3 relays are equally bad. IMO is a material used or location of where these ALL are in the "power center/fuse/relay box" may get soaked or just excessive something where it's located?
What to do if so?
If close eyesight reveals crust in where prongs must contact at a minimum a Q-Tip or WD-40 may help stop the progression. There's also a bottom or blind side to this center for troubles (any vehicle) may need to take a look ever so carefully.
Some if/when you see lousy in the unit can stop it as said and a slight twist with needle nose pliers on first an old relay that may still be good on those prongs just enough so they get a better bite can and does work many times. So does whacking the one if a shot with the plastic handle of a screwdriver a crap shoot may snap to and work if it does AT LEAST YOU KNOW RIGHT WHERE THE PROBLEM IS, is 99% of the work to end this for you.
This is so close it almost has to be that so don't give up yet ----- one note is if anything like that works mark it down if it goes ugly on you again where to go back it will save tons of time,
Tom
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