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olds89
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May 1, 2009, 6:16 PM
Post #1 of 21
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89 Ciera Turn signal
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I have an '89 Olds Ciera SL 3.3 and both rear turn signals work fine, but there's an extra set of lights on either side of the vehicle in the back (not sure if they're for braking or turning) and they don't go on. I've replaced the bulbs a couple times and the wires and connectors look in pretty good condition except for the dirt on everything. I don't understand why these smaller lights on the sides don't work since they're connected to the bigger lights in back and they work fine. Any ideas?
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Loren Champlain Sr
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May 1, 2009, 7:42 PM
Post #2 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Not entirely sure which lights you are referring to? Are they on the SIDE of the vehicle? Those would be 'marker' lamps. Usually, #194 bulbs, that illuminate with the head/tail lamps.
Loren
SW Washington
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 2, 2009, 4:00 AM
Post #3 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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The vehicle has 2 stop and turn signal lights on each side of the car. The 2 lights are wired together and work simultaneously so if one is working and not the other, then you have a problem with the bulb, the wiring or the socket.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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olds89
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May 2, 2009, 4:17 AM
Post #4 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Okay, I guess they're called marker lights and they should work simultaneously with the lights in back and since the socket and wiring look fine and the bulbs are new, it could be the connection?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 2, 2009, 4:25 AM
Post #5 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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If your talking about the little 194 bulbs that Loren referred to, then they operate with running lights and yes, there is probably a problem with the socket. They are positioned to be seen from the side of the vehicle.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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olds89
Novice
May 2, 2009, 4:46 AM
Post #6 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Okay so you think it's the connection between the bulb and the socket? I'll try to use a test light and see if I have juice and then look at the connection. Thanks guys!
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flgmtech1
User
May 2, 2009, 1:34 PM
Post #7 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Yes a test light is the best test of all, and if you find you have power test the other terminal for proper ground allot of times the issue can be a poor ground and is often overlooked.
I have attatched a schematic for your exterior lights and as you will see the side marker lights are on the same circuit as your other
rear tail lamps, thus if they are working then the power and grounds are good for those 2 circuits, but the contacts may be bad inside the sockets.
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olds89
Novice
May 3, 2009, 3:38 PM
Post #8 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Okay so I stuck a test light in the line and I get the same result: no power. Is it possible it's not grounded? There's a bundle of wires that runs through the trunk and one wire comes out and is bolted to the car's body. Is that the ground? If it is, it's bolted on there pretty good, so I don't know how it can be that.
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olds89
Novice
May 4, 2009, 1:57 PM
Post #9 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Okay, I got a question for y'all. I hooked up in series one terminal of my car battery, a test light, my signal bulb (194?) and ground. The result is the test light turns green but my signal bulb does nothing. Does this mean the bulb is dead, or maybe there's not enough juice for it, or what?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 5, 2009, 7:46 AM
Post #10 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Just poking my nose in - haven't read whole thread.
Note: I think you are using an LED test light when used shows green for a certain ground when back powered and red for POS when used in regular mode. Nice light - not much current goes to power the bulb and near none will power a bulb thru it.
That 194 bulb if in question itself can be take out bend the prongs to a 9v household battery and will light! You can do that with jumper (alligator clip type) wires too as a test.
All these things need both power and ground to work of course so you need to test for both.
Side note: Bulbs can look good and still be junk??
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on May 5, 2009, 7:50 AM)
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flgmtech1
User
May 6, 2009, 3:15 AM
Post #11 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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The schematic shows that all the parking lights work off the same ground the one you found at the body, therefore if all of your other lights are working then the ground itself is good, however, the test at the bulb socket is two fold, one, if the test light does not illuminate when placed across the terminals of the socket, then there is either no power or ground, the way to test is to undue any of the closest known good parking or tail lights that is working and take the same test light and using the same ground tested for the inoperative side marker light to test the terminals of the working socket. This will prove that the ground you are using to test is good, then take the test light and back probe the positive or hot side of the working park light connector and test both of the terminals of the inoperative side marker light. This will establish that at least one of the terminals has proper ground establishing that the ground circuit is good, and hopefully the other terminal does NOT show ground, if it does than you have a short to ground, if it does not show to be grounded, then use a DVOM to test for continuity and resistance, you are testing for and open circuit, or low resistance.
Then the plan would be to trace the wire back to the splice where the circuit for the side marker and park lamps all share the same voltage supply. It could be that the splice itself has corrosion and this leg of the circuit is the only one effected.
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olds89
Novice
May 6, 2009, 5:49 AM
Post #12 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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I got tired of trying to prick a tiny wire with the point of the test light so I got four alligator clips and stuck them on the end of some speaker wire and hooked the 194 bulb up to the car's battery and it (finally!) worked. Then I stripped the two wires for the marker light and clipped the bulb on (I tried every variation) and got nothing. Then I pulled off the tail light assembly, stripped the wires leading to the rear blinker, clipped on the bulb and (woohoo!) it blinked together with the rear blinker. I guess since there was no smoke this is a good configuration. I don't think either of the marker light wires had any power. Thanks everybody!
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Loren Champlain Sr
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May 6, 2009, 6:14 PM
Post #13 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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You didn't let the smoke out? "Atta boy, Luther!"  Good job. Thanks for the reply.
Loren
SW Washington
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flgmtech1
User
May 7, 2009, 2:32 AM
Post #14 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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I would never recommend "pricking" or breaking the insulation of a wire, the probing I was referring to was inside the connector or at the backside of the connector often referred to as back probing whereby the load, in this case the bulb is still in the connector, and the wires are probed from the backside of the connector where they can be probed without penetrating the insulation.
As far as the speaker wire, it is generally low amperage low voltage use design, and although a 194 bulb in and of itself is low voltage, and low amperage, used in series as you have now done can allow not only a voltage drop in the circuit, but if a short to ground on that circuit took place or voltage, could cause the smoke you are not currently seeing and the insulation on that speaker wire, if it is general speaker wire and not High impedance wire used with the newer High wattage amped up systems, it may melt with ease.
I can only hope you did not use this to wire the bulb into the other wires with the same speaker wire you chose to test the bulb with.
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olds89
Novice
May 7, 2009, 7:31 AM
Post #15 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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You're not supposed to break the insulation of a wire with the probe? Now you tell me  . I'm pretty sure I read somewhere you could. But you're right, it would be a better idea to stick the probe in the socket (not always possible though). As far as the circuitry goes, I think I have my 194 bulb in parallel to the rear blinker and I think that means the voltage over the two would be the same and the current would have to be shared by the two (meaning less amps for the rear blinker).
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 7, 2009, 7:55 AM
Post #16 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Yes and no on pricking wires. Absolutely know which one(s) you are testing for what! If you must - sharpen the tip of test probe with a grinding wheel or whatever makes it sharp as a needle. When done - put clear nail polish or liquid electrical tape over any hole in insulation you made! Doesn't take didle for water or worse salted water or any battery acid in area to ruin the wire inside!
T
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olds89
Novice
May 7, 2009, 8:12 AM
Post #17 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Okay, I'll put clear nail polish on the wire. Thanks for the heads up. The Electro-tek probe instructions say to "pierce the cable" so that's where I got that idea from. It's a pretty junky probe though and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It only ever lit when I touched it to the car's battery.
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flgmtech1
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May 7, 2009, 2:14 PM
Post #18 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Tom is correct that in some instances you may not have a choice but to pierce the insulation of a wire, but I really recommend against it. And yes your use of the wire in parallel versus series means that the voltage drop will be minimal at each point in the circuit. The reason I do not recommend piercing is for the loss of electrons from the point of piercing, and yes if using heat shrink or a suitable substitute such as electrical tape or "nail polish?"( I have not heard of that I will have to try it), or even a solderless butt connector, or what ever it takes to ensure proper insulation this reduces intrusion of moisture which can cause corrosion, or in some cases dependent upon location EMI (electro magnetic interference) into surrounding wires and systems, such as the radio signal, or RFA (remote function actuation) like keyless entry, or TIM (tire inflation management) tire pressure monitoring systems, all of these us the radio waves that EMI can induce a AC voltage signal from release of free electrons out of any openings that no longer provide resistance to the electron flow inside the insulation that has been pierced.
Allot of people have the misconception that electricity flows through the wiring, however the reality is that the electrons flow around the wire inside the insulation thus any break in the insulation a/k/a loss of resistance, you lose electrons, thus when testing wiring circuits with a digital volt meter like a fluke, low resistance can indicate a break in the wire, where as Infinite can indicate an open circuit. But high resistance is usually what we like to see. Thus my tendency to shy away from piercing any wire if at all possible. Think of it as piercing your garden hose, sure you can tape it, but unless it is truly sealed it is still seeping or susceptible to seep or leak.
Okay I will now get off of my lecture box.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 7, 2009, 3:05 PM
Post #19 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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Interesting............. good info
I learned a couple new things there.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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flgmtech1
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May 7, 2009, 3:42 PM
Post #20 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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not to keep on boring people,... BUT, a good way to prve the theory that electrons flow inside an inuslator and not in the copper wire itself, is to take plain old vacuum hose, now remove one of your spark plug wires off of your engine ignition coils and the spark plug, and place the vacuum hose in it's place. You can now drive the vehicle without a missfire as long as the hose is free of holes and is kept DRY! I had a customer come into our shop on vacation at 4:30 on a saturday, he had three out of 6 wires that he had placed to close to the exhaust manifold and they all melted and grounded to the manifold, we had no wires in stock and he had to leave town that day and the local Napa stopped delivery and did not have a set at the store, it would be Monday before they got another. I used vacuum hoses for all three and told him to replace them as soon as possible. He called to thank me on Monday, he had driven from Florida to Ohio with the vacuum hoses and did not have any problems.
I also use them for DIS ignition systems cutting 1-2 inch sections between the coil and the spark plug wires so that using a test light I can ground the circuit doing cylinder balance tests when isolating missfires.
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olds89
Novice
May 8, 2009, 6:11 AM
Post #21 of 21
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Re: 89 Ciera Turn signal
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I was looking at a dc circuit simulation here and it turns out I was wrong about parallel circuits. If the marker light is parallel to the rear blinker, there's no effect on the rear blinker at all. The marker light would have the same voltage as the rear blinker and draw whatever charge it needs. Rubber hose instead of wire? I wish I'd thought of that  .
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