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kidcisco56
User
Apr 26, 2015, 6:27 AM
Post #1 of 26
(3631 views)
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92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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Hi my name is Cisco, I have a 92 Chevy Lumina Z34 3.4 motor that wont start. I have confirmed it is not the timing belt by lifting the front cover gasket, also all the spark plug wires have good fire and the fuel pressure is at 38 or so with the key on and about 44 when trying to start it. I believe my problem to be electrical and would love to figure it out for I don't like leaving my wife at home with the kids with no car when I take hers. I did a manual pull of the codes and got codes 22 and 35, but I doubt that these codes will keep the car from starting, it turns but doesn't crank over. I also don't think it's not my alternator because when it died on me driving home one night it still had a lot of battery life in it, it simply just died on me but did feel funny on the hwy around 65 miles I felt like a tug or hesitation and when I got of the highway drove for like another 1 mile or so and just turned off on me. I would love to fix the car and keep driving it cause I have put to much money into it lately and would hate to let it go for something simple. Can someone here please help me and my family figure this out. Thanks again Cisco.
PS. The car was sitting for like 9 mo before
I got it on the road again, Ive owned this
car for about 13 yrs now n has been a money
pit I'm the 3rd owner n it only had 36k when I got it
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 26, 2015, 6:49 AM
Post #2 of 26
(3623 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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The code 35 likely won't prevent it from starting but the 22 is the TPS and that can shut off the injectors.
You have done some of the required testing but there is more that needs to be tested. Here is the complete battery of tests that need to be performed.
All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 26, 2015, 6:58 AM
Post #3 of 26
(3619 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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A GM 3.4L DOHC is still around. I thought all those things were in the scrap heap.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 26, 2015, 7:08 AM
Post #4 of 26
(3615 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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I believe I did the spark test and all was gd by disconnecting the wire of the spark plug and check on that end and all was gd, the fuel pressure was gd also with the key off and on , I haven't checked the injectors yet will try and get the tool for it. I'll post once I get them checked.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 26, 2015, 7:18 AM
Post #6 of 26
(3609 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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The compression test is very important also.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 26, 2015, 9:36 AM
Post #7 of 26
(3599 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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My neighbor had a compression tester and I tested the front 3 cylinders and they were all about 180. I didn't do the back 3 should I? I am getting ready to test the power to the injestors and I got the noid light to make sure the driver or ecm is doing its job. So I can rule them out. I'll let u know how these tests go but as far as the compression test should I also test the back 3?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 26, 2015, 9:58 AM
Post #8 of 26
(3598 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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It depends on the results of the noid light test. If the injector circuit tests good, then yes, test the compression in the rear.
What we don't know here is if any of the sprockets spun on the cams. They have no keyway.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 26, 2015, 10:26 AM
Post #9 of 26
(3591 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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I'm having a brain fart with the multimeter. What should the setting be on the multimeter? And when looking at the connector are both supposed to read or just one>? I know one is positive and one is negative.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 26, 2015, 10:31 AM
Post #10 of 26
(3590 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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I would just use the noid light. If it flashes, both signals are there.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 26, 2015, 10:36 AM
Post #11 of 26
(3586 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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I have my battery connected to jump it with a battery charger so it doesn't die on me and when I try to start it and leave the key turned on to continuous crank the noid light in the connector turns on, does not flash. And slowly fades away.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 26, 2015, 10:38 AM
Post #12 of 26
(3583 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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You plug the light into the connector. You crank the engine and the light should flash.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 26, 2015, 10:41 AM
Post #13 of 26
(3578 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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Yes it is into the connector, I'm using the GM SCPI noid light and with that one the light flashed with the other noid light GM PFI it really doesn't flash more like it turns on and remains steady n slowly fades away. Which of the 2 should I b using
(This post was edited by kidcisco56 on Apr 26, 2015, 10:49 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 26, 2015, 10:53 AM
Post #14 of 26
(3570 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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A noid light is simply an LED bulb that plugs into the connector. When you crank the engine, the light flashes. I already showed you a picture of one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 26, 2015, 10:58 AM
Post #15 of 26
(3565 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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I don't recall a pic, as far as I can tell the driver seems to b working and I do have power to the injector connectors. I appreciate your responses and patience with me.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 26, 2015, 11:03 AM
Post #16 of 26
(3563 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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Must have been a different thread I posted it.
No, you shouldn't be powering the injector. It powers itself.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 26, 2015, 11:10 AM
Post #17 of 26
(3559 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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I have that noid set , when I use it it does flash
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 27, 2015, 6:02 AM
Post #18 of 26
(3538 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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Ok , I spent all of sunday trying to figure out this car and mind you most of my test have been on the front cylinders only so far. I tested for voltage and they have that the injectors, I checked with a noid light n it flashes, I checked for fuel pressure n it has that, I replaced the crank sensor by the rear of engine n uver the oil pan which is a huge pain btw just to try it out after fighting with that sensor most the day I finally gave up after I got it out and put the new one in without the bolt yet, sprayed the intake with carb cleaner n the car started and ran for like 15 min and died again, I repeated this and the car ran again n died after 15 min or so. Any ideas, could it be the fuel pump not constantly delivering fuel or the fuel relay. Where should I look, and where is the fuel relay on this car. I'm sorry to b bugging y'all but this the last chance this car will get from me after fixing this current problem I will sell it if it gives me another issue I just want to make it to June 1st cause it's my closing on our 1st home n stop leaving my wife at home with the kids n no car, I also don't want to get another car to n have it hinder my debt to income ratio with the bank they are already picky. Thanks so much for the help and support guys.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 27, 2015, 6:13 AM
Post #19 of 26
(3536 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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Yes - Fuel pressure could drop out and come back. In cleaning you've also probably primed it so it starts, alternator puts out higher than just battery voltage and you could be within spec for fuel pressure alone for a while. Maybe if it's tired just running it loses it after that given time?
If you can watch the pressure drop out with stuff you have do so. It's a motor and can act up itself, when warmer only (fuel keeps them cooler) or a connection to it but might show loss of proper pressure. Can't know what tester you would be using but need to reset (waste out fuel carefully) so new not locked from past pressure if one does do that meaning you want live info,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 27, 2015, 6:44 AM
Post #20 of 26
(3528 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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You're going to have to go back to the "crank,no start" diagnostics I gave you in the first place and repeat your testing when the engine isn't starting. Something is dropping out and you have to figure out what.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Apr 27, 2015, 6:44 AM)
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 28, 2015, 8:31 AM
Post #21 of 26
(3506 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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I don't know if this helps but I found out that my two of my injectors are at 13.7 ohms another one is at 13.4, another at 12.5 another at 3.3 and another at 6.1. Will this cause the car not to start? And can I clean them myself?
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 28, 2015, 12:25 PM
Post #22 of 26
(3497 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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Yes it will. You have shorted injector coils which will cause the computer to shut down the injector drivers. That explains the fading injector noid lamp. You can't clean the injectors to fix that problem. They have to be replaced.
The old multec 1 injectors were known for shorting causing no starts. They should all be around 11.8 to 12.6 ohms.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 28, 2015, 12:32 PM)
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 28, 2015, 12:55 PM
Post #23 of 26
(3490 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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Ok , update I have replaced the 3 injectors that were off with injectors I had as parts from an old Z34 motor and the ohms were around 13.7. Car started right up but has high Idle now, I guess I need to adjust that TPS now n that's why I had code 22 originally. I'll update once I get this TPS in the right position. Thx guys.
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 28, 2015, 6:10 PM
Post #24 of 26
(3481 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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Ok, I put the car back together and forgot to put a new intake valve gasket that was brought to my attention by a mechanic from Oreilly's auto parts. So I took intake apart again and put the new gasket on and still the car had a 1500 rpm idle, the guy from Oreilly's who went to marine engine school was listening to the high idle and started to look around and noticed that the throttle body plate was off or warped by trying to put a plastic in there to stop the air flow which did not turn the engine off but instead it ran at 1000 rpm. So we concluded that the throttle body plate was tampered with or warped so I will try and find the part and replace tomorrow. I myself showed my wife by turning the car on and while at idle it was at 1500 rpm and when I stuck something in there in front of the plate to restrict air flow it dropped down to 1000 rpm. I will update once fixed completely.
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kidcisco56
User
Apr 29, 2015, 6:11 PM
Post #25 of 26
(3443 views)
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Re: 92 Chevy Lumina Z34
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Hope that this is my final update n it helps someone else out there, I changed the upper intake manifold and my idle problem went away. I hope the car will give me a break before acting up again. I appreciate all the responses and support from the moderators here I hope I don't run into another complicated issue with this car, THANKS AGAIN.
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