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'93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem


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Vitamink
User

Dec 9, 2013, 7:22 PM

Post #1 of 26 (4019 views)
'93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Greetings, folks.

I've got a 1993, Six Cylinder Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera. For the past, oh, year or so, the ignition has been slightly finicky, by which I mean sometimes you'd turn the key and nothing would happen. Then you'd turn it again and the car would start right up.

So, the other day, I got into my car, turned the key and...nothing. No grunt. No click. No dimming of lights. Nothing.

I've recently (as in, two weeks ago) had both the battery and alternator replaced. I've tested the battery voltage, so I am ruling that out as a possibility.

I put the car up on jack stands and slid under. I found the starter and starter solenoid and put a multimeter on the cranking wire to see if any current was coming through. Got nothing. Then I shorted the connection between the cranking post and the 'always on' post and the car did indeed crank (that was kinda scary).

So, since the battery, starter and solenoid are good, my thinking is that it is either the ignition switch or the neutral safety switch. My neighbor suspects the latter, because he says that they tend to flake out after a while.

So here are my questions: First, where do I find the neutral safety switch on my car? I'd like to know the general location before I go tearing things up. Is it down by the transaxle, or inside the dash/steering column?

My second question is..would it be an extraordinarily bad idea to wire up a push button switch to route 12 volts to the cranking post on the solenoid to bypass the ignition switch and neutral safety switch, to give me a 'quick fix' for getting the car running? Ideally, i want it fixed right, but given the snow and ice, I could use a quickie fix to get things rolling until I have a nicer day with which to root around under the hood.

Thanks for any help and suggestions!


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 9, 2013, 7:41 PM

Post #2 of 26 (4003 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Yes, the rigged up push button would be a very bad idea.

The park/neutral switch is on top of the transmission.







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Tom Greenleaf
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Dec 10, 2013, 2:56 AM

Post #3 of 26 (3984 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

So this car is out in snow and ice - join much of the US right now. No tricks except just power trigger wire one more time, get it running and into a garage till all cleared off and you can find source problem. Tossing stuff you already did was a waste untested first and you'll go broke doing that. Car doesn't need an alternator at all to crank engine - what were you thinking?

T



Vitamink
User

Dec 10, 2013, 3:57 AM

Post #4 of 26 (3979 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

No garage to use, unfortunately. Best I've got is a carport. Probably would be better under that than out in the open, though.

I'm clueless about cars, but, yes, even I know that the alternator is not used when cranking the car. The alternator and battery were replaced prior to the problem with starting the car. I only mention them so that I can rule out A) bad battery and B) battery not getting properly charged.


Quote
So this car is out in snow and ice - join much of the US right now. No tricks except just power trigger wire one more time, get it running and into a garage till all cleared off and you can find source problem. Tossing stuff you already did was a waste untested first and you'll go broke doing that. Car doesn't need an alternator at all to crank engine - what were you thinking?



Hammer Time
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Dec 10, 2013, 4:16 AM

Post #5 of 26 (3977 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

If I were you I would be testing power in and out of that neutral switch before changing anything.

It's going to be yellow going in and purple going out. You already know the purple wire has no power at the starter so you're interested in the power coming in on the yellow wire when the key is in start position.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 10, 2013, 4:17 AM)


Vitamink
User

Dec 10, 2013, 4:20 AM

Post #6 of 26 (3974 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Sounds like a smart approach to take. Will I be able to get reasonably easy access to the switch, or will I need to remove some components to get at it?


In Reply To
If I were you I would be testing power in and out of that neutral switch before changing anything.

It's going to be yellow going in and purple going out. You already know the purple wire has no power at the starter so you're interested in the power coming in on the yellow wire when the key is in start position.


In Reply To


Hammer Time
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Dec 10, 2013, 4:22 AM

Post #7 of 26 (3973 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

You may have to remove the air intake but it should be right on top of the transmission. Remember, it's adjustable too for position so trying wiggling the shifter around while trying to start it too.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DanD
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Dec 10, 2013, 4:42 AM

Post #8 of 26 (3963 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

It's a pretty simple starting circuit and you've already told him what to check HT; but I just thought a diagram might help him understand why.

Dan.



Canadian "EH"






Discretesignals
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Dec 10, 2013, 5:42 AM

Post #9 of 26 (3954 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

If this car has an aftermarket alarm system, you might want to check that out too.





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Hammer Time
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Dec 10, 2013, 6:31 AM

Post #10 of 26 (3948 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

If he just does the testing I gave him, it's going to lead there anyway.



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Vitamink
User

Dec 10, 2013, 1:50 PM

Post #11 of 26 (3942 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Quick question...if I put a piece of jumper wire in to connect the yellow and purple wires, would that temporarily bypass the switch to let me test the starting of the car with the switch out of the equation?


In Reply To
If I were you I would be testing power in and out of that neutral switch before changing anything.

It's going to be yellow going in and purple going out. You already know the purple wire has no power at the starter so you're interested in the power coming in on the yellow wire when the key is in start position.



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 10, 2013, 1:59 PM

Post #12 of 26 (3941 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Yes, it would but using a test light would be much easier and reliable way.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Vitamink
User

Dec 10, 2013, 2:24 PM

Post #13 of 26 (3935 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Well, my neighbor with the multimeter wasn't home, so I had to rely on the jumper test. Didn't get any result, so I'll wait until I can borrow his meter to see if any current is coming through the wire at all.

Guess this is why a man needs his own tools. Unsure

Thanks for all the help so far! Will update after I can do a proper test.


In Reply To
Yes, it would but using a test light would be much easier and reliable way.



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 10, 2013, 2:36 PM

Post #14 of 26 (3931 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

If you find nothing on that yellow wire, then you go to the ignition switch where that wire originates and test it there.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



DanD
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Dec 10, 2013, 2:38 PM

Post #15 of 26 (3929 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Like HT said a test light would be the best for checking this; but use what you got.
If you do not want to wait for you buddy; you could unplug the safety switch and jumper the yellow and purple wires. Make sure the car is in park foot on the brake peddle and try starting it. If it does crank you know the safety switch is bad. If it doesn't crank move to the ignition switch and the yellow wire under the dash.

Dan.

Canadian "EH"






Vitamink
User

Dec 11, 2013, 10:27 PM

Post #16 of 26 (3910 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Well, got a circuit tester (6-12 VDC) and checked for power when cranking to the yellow wire on the NSS. Got nothing, so looks like I have to find the yellow wire under the dash.

I'm assuming that I can just remove the plastic panel beneath the dash board, and I won't need to dissemble the steering column?


In Reply To
If you find nothing on that yellow wire, then you go to the ignition switch where that wire originates and test it there.



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 12, 2013, 3:35 AM

Post #17 of 26 (3907 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Yes, you will find a harness running up the steering column. This would be a good time to look around that area for an aftermarket alarm box that may be spliced into that wire. You probably also want to check the fusible link wires at the starter to make sure the ignition switch is even receiving power. Pull on each small wire at the starter and see any of them are melted or stretch.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Vitamink
User

Dec 13, 2013, 3:46 PM

Post #18 of 26 (3889 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Okay, finally got the under-dash open and crawled in for a look. Definitely getting no spark at crank time on the yellow wire that leads out from the ignition switch. The red wire coming into the switch is hot all of the time, and the orange and green wires coming out of the switch are hot when the switch is turned on.

I'm assuming this means that the problem lies in the ignition switch somewhere?


In Reply To
Yes, you will find a harness running up the steering column. This would be a good time to look around that area for an aftermarket alarm box that may be spliced into that wire. You probably also want to check the fusible link wires at the starter to make sure the ignition switch is even receiving power. Pull on each small wire at the starter and see any of them are melted or stretch.



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 13, 2013, 4:06 PM

Post #19 of 26 (3888 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Looks like there should be 2 red wires coming into the switch which should both be hot. If that is the case and you did alll this testing while the key was held in "start", then you like do have a bad ignition switch.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Vitamink
User

Dec 13, 2013, 4:47 PM

Post #20 of 26 (3882 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Yes, there was a red wire and a red wire with a white stripe. Both were hot all the time.

So how gnarly a business is it to work on the ignition switch? Kind of scared to mess with the steering column.


In Reply To
Looks like there should be 2 red wires coming into the switch which should both be hot. If that is the case and you did alll this testing while the key was held in "start", then you like do have a bad ignition switch.



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Dec 13, 2013, 5:01 PM

Post #21 of 26 (3881 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

It's really not that bad. You don't have too go inside the steering column. The switch is mounted on the top of the steering column under the dash. It's held on by two screws and slides up and down for adjustment. When you lift it off you will see the actuator rod that inserts into the bottom of the switch to operate it.


It's number 43 in the picture.






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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Vitamink
User

Dec 16, 2013, 4:47 AM

Post #22 of 26 (3866 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Well, I went ahead and installed a push-button in the dash, wired to the green accessory wire and the yellow ignition wire. So to start the car, you turn the key to "on" and push the button. Hack-y, but it got me rolling.

When the weather warms up (and when I'm working less overtime -- thanks, Fed shutdown) I will want to fix it right and look at the ignition switch, but this will do for now.

Thanks for all of the help and advice. I really appreciate it.


nickwarner
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Dec 16, 2013, 10:39 AM

Post #23 of 26 (3859 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Doing the ignition switch is a pretty easy job. If you're going to have that pushbutton in there, at least put an inline fuse on it as close to the power supply as you can. If something shorts in this you will have a fire.


Vitamink
User

Dec 16, 2013, 10:52 AM

Post #24 of 26 (3852 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

Duly noted. What amperage fuse would you recommend?

Also, how is this setup any more fire-prone than the crank switch in the ignition itself? Does the ignition system already incorporate a fuse? (Just curious).


In Reply To
Doing the ignition switch is a pretty easy job. If you're going to have that pushbutton in there, at least put an inline fuse on it as close to the power supply as you can. If something shorts in this you will have a fire.



nickwarner
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Dec 16, 2013, 10:58 AM

Post #25 of 26 (3851 views)
Re: '93 Cutlass Ciera -- Starting Problem Sign In

I'd try a ten amp. Factory circuits are all fuse protected. With this not being held into a factory loom it has a chance to rub and short to ground. Thats the fire danger. You never want to have an unprotected circuit. Seen a few burned out cars because someone rigged up the wiring and didn't protect it.






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