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94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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Traveller-man
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Sep 17, 2011, 4:22 PM
Post #1 of 17
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94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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I have a 94 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible that came with a 3.4, but previous owner changed to 3.1. I am having starting issues and believe it is in the wiring, but not sure how to diagnose and cure. I have had the car several months and it has been reliable, except once it would not start when key turned, and checking obvious possibilities, I noticed a loose battery cable and tightened it and away I went. Then after driving it daily for a few more months, I got in, turned key and nothing happened. The dash lights came on, everything seemed normal except no starter and not even a click of a solenoid. I assumed it was the VATS security system as I rechecked battery condition, and cables and know that this is a common problem with these. I looked online and found a bypass for the key resistor, so was going to try that, but found it had apparently already been done, the orange wires under the steering column had been cut. So I researched and decided to do a full VATS bypass through Newrockies.com. I wasn't too happy with them, their procedures were too vague, and not much online help. I got it installed, and it did not help at all. Still no starter or solenoid sound. I contacted Newrockies (and got a little more assistance this time) and they had me see if power is going to starter solenoid when key is turned. It was getting power so it was determined starter is bad. I took it to get replacement and they tested starter and it was locked up tight, would not turn at all. That seemed strange to me as there were no symptoms before the seizure, but I put new starter in and now got click of solenoid, but no start. I thought maybe needed shims (there were none before, so none were used in initial install of new starter). Tried shims one at a time and now I get click of solenoid sometimes, and sometimes it starts. I put more shims in to see if it would start every time, but I now have 3 thicker shims, and am scared to go any farther, and still have the same result, sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn't. I suspect even though I'm getting power to the starter, maybe it's not enough? Maybe a bad ground? Ignition switch? I have rechecked connections at starter and battery cables at the battery, I have tried swapping batteries with my daughters car that she drives every day with no problems. Can you suggest probable causes and tests I can perform to diagnose? I have an electrical tester, but am not familiar with how to use it, so if any tests require it, please let me know what settings to use.
Thank you,
Brian
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Traveller-man
Novice
Sep 17, 2011, 4:45 PM
Post #3 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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It's a handheld Gunson's Pocketmeter 2 with several settings for amps, ohms, and volts.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 17, 2011, 4:53 PM
Post #4 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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That should work. Does it have a good battery in it?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Traveller-man
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Sep 17, 2011, 4:57 PM
Post #5 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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I believe so, the display comes on when I turn it on, but I have not changed batteries before and have had unit for quite a while.
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Traveller-man
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Sep 17, 2011, 5:07 PM
Post #6 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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Rereading the question, you may have meant in the car...yes the car has a good battery too.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 17, 2011, 5:09 PM
Post #7 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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I was typing about the meter's battery. You should check the meter's battery. Just to make sure it isn't leaking.
Plug the black lead into the COM port on the meter. Should be the hole all the way to the right.
Plug the red lead into the middle port. That is for all measurements except AMPs
Turn the dial to the DC volt 20V scale. DC volt scale is the yellow region to the right of OFF.
Take the red probe and touch it to your car battery positive terminal. Touch the black probe to the negative terminal on the car battery. What you should see in the display is the voltage potential in the car battery (12.6-12.8 VDC).
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Sep 17, 2011, 5:11 PM)
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Traveller-man
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Sep 17, 2011, 5:23 PM
Post #8 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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Reads 12.59, just shy a touch of 12.6
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Discretesignals
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Sep 17, 2011, 5:39 PM
Post #9 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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With your meter connected to the battery have someone attempt to crank the engine. What does the voltage go to on your display?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Traveller-man
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Sep 17, 2011, 5:58 PM
Post #10 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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I'll have no help for about 30 min, can I use a remote starter switch on this car? It looks like I would just put one lead on the small terminal on the solenoid, and one lead on the big terminal if it's ok to use it on this car and will accomplish what you are trying to test. Otherwise I can wait and try in a little while.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 17, 2011, 6:04 PM
Post #11 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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You can do that. You can test for voltage drops in the battery cables and connections using your remote start switch until someone comes back.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Traveller-man
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Sep 17, 2011, 6:44 PM
Post #12 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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I tried it a few times, It did start each time (this is an intermiten problem), but it looked to me like the readings were between about 11.27 and 10.95. I did notice after the first try, the voltage was lower at about 12.29 before I hit the starter button, then dropped to the lower numbers after hitting the switch.
My help just got back, I disconnected the remote starter and tried a couple more times with the ignition switch, the car did not start, just clicked at the solenoid both times. The volts before turning the key were about 12.21, and when turning the key and holding it for a few seconds, it dropped down to about 11.59 and 11.63. It dropped most of it immediately and dropped a little more, slowly at the end and stopped at these numbers. It seems kind of coincidental that it started every time with remote starter, but didn't with ignitions switch.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 17, 2011, 6:52 PM
Post #13 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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Take the red probe of the meter and put it on the solenoid lead for the small purple post on the starter. Leave the black lead on the battery negative terminal. Have your help try to start the vehicle. You should see battery voltage at the purple wire post when the ignition is turned to start.
If that is good, take your meter and move the black lead to the positive post on the battery and leave the red lead on the starter solenoid purple wire lug. Crank the engine. What is your reading?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Sep 17, 2011, 6:55 PM)
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Traveller-man
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Sep 17, 2011, 7:23 PM
Post #14 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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I tried it twice with the black probe on the negative side of the battery. It did not start and gave readings of 5.19 and 6.62. I tried it a 3rd time and it did start and the reading was 7.72. Then I tried with the probe on the positive battery terminal. It started out showing 12.21, and the engine started when key was turned this time, and it showed 1.6. I tried it again and it did not start and showed 5.09
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 17, 2011, 7:35 PM
Post #15 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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With your meter connected to the purple post on the starter and the positive post of the battery you are measuring what is called a voltage drop through starter solenoid circuit. At the time the starter didn't work, you were dropping a total of 5.09 volts through the circuit due to high resistance. That means the starter solenoid only had around 6 volts, which isn't enough.
What you need to find out is where this excessive resistance is in the starter solenoid circuit. To do this you need to measure voltage drops in different parts of the solenoid circuit to find out where the high resistance is.
One place to start checking is at the ignition switch connector. At the connector you can determine if the voltage is dropping at the ignition switch, after the switch, or before the switch. Using the meter you can narrow down your search.
The ignition switch is located on the steering column tube.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Traveller-man
Novice
Sep 17, 2011, 8:08 PM
Post #16 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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I will try this tomorrow. I don't believe my probe wires will reach from the battery to the steering column. Can I use an extension wire, or will that affect current too much? And do I put one probe on the negative battery post and the other at different points (before and after the switch connector) along the path? And if so is there a particular wire I need to be testing? I suppose I will see numbers that look familiar when I test the right wire. Can I respond to this tomorrow if I have more questions, or should I start a new thread and refer to this one? Thanks very much for your help tonight! I finally feel like I'm making progress!
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 17, 2011, 8:12 PM
Post #17 of 17
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Re: 94 Cutlass Supreme Starting Issues
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I'd keep everything in this thread. Mods don't like more than one thread on the same subject.
I'll prolly be on and off tomorrow, so I'll give you more info later. Unless someone else jumps in and has some advice.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Sep 17, 2011, 8:16 PM)
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