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Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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Skynet928
Novice
May 28, 2013, 9:16 PM
Post #1 of 16
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Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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I have a 2005 Pontiac Sunfire 2.2 Ecotech liter Engine two door coupe with about ~70K to 80K miles. (Don't really want to mess with car right now due to problem)
The problem I have is that my cluster is not working at times. I noticed that a few months ago, about 6-8 my tach was acting up a bit but not really (somewhat sticking but very little) and now it's dead at times and working at other times.
About a few days ago, both my speed and tach was dead. My fuel gauge and temp was working fine along with the other warnings and messages that are supposed to show. I replaced the fuse, not burned out, and it worked perfectly again. Since then, it's just a game of chance.
I don't mess with the system and it decides whether or not it works. Sometimes the Tach works and sometimes it sticks where you notice it very well. I don't do anything and it fixes itself. Then after a while, undetermined amount of time, it messes up again, sticking. I flipped the fuse and it fixed it on the spot. Speed is correct. Double checked it with a GPS. Not too accurate but got an estimate. Then this afternoon, both the tach and the speed die. I don't do anything and later at night. It works just fine again.
Just to note, the temp of the car doesn't seem to affect the results much. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't regardless if it's day or night.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
May 28, 2013, 9:39 PM
Post #2 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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If the old fuse you changed out wasn't blown then it was just a coincidence. Either a fuse works or it doesn't. Maybe when you pulled the fuse cutting off the power to it effected it. It probably would've done the same thing if you unhooked the battery terminal.
I'd put my money on a faulty cluster.
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Skynet928
Novice
May 28, 2013, 10:18 PM
Post #3 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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Well the battery and the fuse were untouched. I did have the battery replaced cause it needed it but that was about a year and a half ago. I didn't touch anything and the battery has never given me any problem and then the cluster just started acting up on me. The fuse I replaced seemed to help but then it just started doing the same thing. I disconnected the battery thinking it needed to be reset but that didn't do anything. I even blew the slot out with some computer air duster. Nothing changed. I turned on the car again a while ago and it was acting normally. i'm not sure what it will do tomorrow. It might behave, it might not.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
May 29, 2013, 2:29 AM
Post #4 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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I was just saying that pulling the fuse wouldn't have fixed the problem and it would have been no different than unhooking the battery. It was just coincidence that pulling the fuse made it work for a bit. Although, it might not hurt to clean your battery terminals first and make sure they're tight. A loose or corroded connection can sometimes cause some weird stuff to go on.
One time I had a loose ground wire and it caused my gauges to go all funky. Be sure to check back in. There are some professional mechanics on here that will be able to give you some better advice than what I can. A guy called Hammer Time will be on here in a couple hours. He'll be able to tell you what direction to go or whether or not it's time for a new cluster.
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Skynet928
Novice
May 29, 2013, 8:47 AM
Post #5 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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Oh no no. I'm not saying you're wrong. I am agreeing with you and trying to make sure I covered everything I did to make sure you guys are aware. I just want to fix this issue. I apologize if I argued with anyone here or gave anyone a hard time. I'm not so much a forum guy. More of a, "Google help me" guy.
The only thing I forgot to mention, yet I still think its the cluster, when I pulled out the old fuse, it had some black on the terminals but I doubt it was a burn, prolly from normal usage. It's been there for sure for four years since I aquired the car. Almost five.
Anyways, reason I mention this is because, I pulled out that fuse, wiped it with my fingers and shirt and while it seems to have done nothing, the tach and speed went from dead to working but the tach inaccruate and the speed just fine.
I replaced it with a brand new one and they both worked just fine. Then just started being random again.
I can provide pictures of the fuse in question if you all like.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
May 29, 2013, 8:42 PM
Post #6 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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I didn't think you were arguing at all. I just wasn't sure if you understood what I was saying. I pretty much meant that killing power to the cluster might've caused it to act normally for a bit. I think it would've done that whether you pulled the fuse or unhook the battery. It might've just been coincidence too.
I don't think a picture of the fuse would help at all. Normally either a fuse is good or a fuse is bad. Then again, maybe if it was corroded or something and it wasn't making a good connection that could possibly cause some screwing things to go on. A little bit of black probably wouldn't do anything though. But, since you put a new fuse in and it's still doing it I would say it's the cluster. You could probably get one from a local salvage yard or even ebay. They aren't hard to swap out and we'd be able to walk you through it.
Many times the stepper motors go out. I had to replace mine on my 2003 Sierra. You can buy the motors if you're comfortable soldering yourself or you can even send off the whole cluster to be repaired. I know some don't recommend having the cluster repaired but I did and it worked fine. It cost me $40 compared to $450. If you look on ebay there are some guys that offer repair service on there. That's where I did mine. If you read the auction you'll see where it asks if your gauges aren't working properly that the auction is for you. I can't say with 100% certainty that the stepper motors are the problem but I bet it is. Do a google search about them going bad and see what you think. Just type something like "2005 Sunfire bad stepper motor symptoms".
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Skynet928
Novice
May 29, 2013, 8:48 PM
Post #7 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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I don't know if there is a problem with just the stepper motor. Could be but then again I don't know. It works intermittently and when it does work, it works perfectly. From what I was told, you can't buy it in parts. You have to buy the entire thing as a whole and get it programmed with your vin and milage. I found one listing on mygmparts for 131 and change. Doesn't seem like that bad of a deal.
installing the new one isn't too difficult, I got a video already that shows me how to do it but I thank you anyway for that.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
May 29, 2013, 9:56 PM
Post #8 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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I know the stepper motors can be replaced. The one good thing about replacing the motors is you use your original cluster so it doesn't have to be programmed. For $131 you might be better off going that route though. You could end paying the $40 plus shipping and it end up not being the motors. You'd then be out the cost for the repair.
The bad part about sending it off for repair is that you wouldn't legally be able to drive the car for about a week. I'd probably go with the new cluster and be done with it.
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Skynet928
Novice
May 29, 2013, 10:11 PM
Post #9 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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well sure but the very nice thing about this problem that I'm having is the fact that I don't have to use my vehicle very often. As a matter of fact everything is within walking distance of my house but I still need a vehicle to do some errands as usual. I wouldn't mind sending it off and getting a program and not having a car for a week. To be honest with you even if it was just a stepper motor that was messing up, I have my doubts understandably because they work intermittently intermittently, so I'm not I wouldn't be confident enough in replacing the stepper motor myself anyways and I really don't feel comfortable sending this off to somebody to get it fixed. I know a certified person would cost a lot more than the person on eBay. To be honest with you I'd rather just take a brand new one and make it come with the warranty because at least then I don't have to deal with the wear and tear of the old parts and if it ever breaks at least I have some coverage.
one question I do have though, is there any way to really test it because from what I see it doesn't really have any way of testing at all? What I mean by this is the fact that it would be nice if I can plug in some sort of computer system like I have for the other problems on the car to see if maybe that would return something but everytime that I plug something and it says there's no problem.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
May 30, 2013, 12:03 AM
Post #10 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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I don't know of a way to test the stepper motors to make sure that's the problem. I'm sure there's some way to do it with a multimeter though. A scan tool will only pick up certain failures. When the check engine light is on that means that your pcm senses something is off and it throws a code. The scan tool is what you use to retrieve that code. I could be wrong here but I believe the only type of electrical problem it will pick up is if something associated with the engine's performance is off. Either way, if there's no check engine light on, there are no codes set and your pcm thinks everything is working correctly.
If for some reason you decide to send yours out for repair I can let you know who I used. I paid extra for overnight shipping both ways. I sent mine off on a Monday using USPS and had it back on Wednesday.
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Skynet928
Novice
May 30, 2013, 12:40 AM
Post #11 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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Well from what I see, it wouldn't hurt. I mean, I need to figure out what is wrong with it. Hopefully it's just that. I know how to remove it and all but I wonder if there is a way to test the plug to make sure it's giving out proper power. let me show you the vid of what I mean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZzsCc3Gdqo
This is my exact model. That plug you see at 2:48 is the one I am talking about.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 30, 2013, 3:03 AM
Post #12 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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The cluster is a computer in itself and works much like the PCM. It sets codes, communicates data and can be manipulated and activated through a scan tool but most of this would be no help in diagnosing your problem as it is intermittent and nothing would be conclusive at all. You would need a professional scan tool, not the generic PCM reader you find at the parts store.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
May 30, 2013, 9:17 AM
Post #13 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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I don't want to get off topic HT but I'm just curious. What kind of codes can the cluster set? Or, do you just "get inside" of it to check rpm's, speed, make sure DIC is working, etc?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 30, 2013, 9:40 AM
Post #14 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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They show up as Body or communication codes. I don't know what this car specifically can do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
May 30, 2013, 12:51 PM
Post #15 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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Oh okay....you know me...always curious. Thanks
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 1, 2013, 4:10 AM
Post #16 of 16
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Re: Cluster Gauge acting funny at times
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Back to first post: You pulled a fuse that looked funny and upon replacing it, things worked for a while. Has this been exposed to excessive moisture or anything? Just maybe any connection, fuses to their plug in spots could go bad or weak if corroded from something??
T
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