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Quad drivers info needed please
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BuickChick99
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Sep 29, 2015, 3:22 PM
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Quad drivers info needed please
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1995 Chevrolet Lumina LS, 3.1, 4t60e trans, odometer read 211,000+ new motor 125,000 miles
Started last year going into limp mode randomly, assumed transmission problem. Typical response from shops was "it's a girl, we can tell her whatever" and I was told the trans was out. Did my own research because of the behavior of the vehicle, it would go into limp mode randomly and come out after a few minutes, hours or days. That started July 2014, and the car finally stayed in limp mode in January 2015. So I parked it. Figured out it was most likely a shift solenoid, so I saved up the money to replace both solenoids. Before I went ahead with the repairs, I used a conputer to check the diagnostics. First time the computer came up, I had a code 82 on the list, ignition control module failure. Spoke to a dealership tech and came to the conclusion after sending him the print out, quad drivers 1 and 4 are bad. He says that could cause the shifting issues and everything.
My question is, is it actually possible? The car won't start now, not even trying except the starter. Fuel and battery connection are good.
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Hammer Time
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Sep 29, 2015, 3:29 PM
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Re: Quad drivers info needed please
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Quad drivers are the transistors inside the computer that operate all the solenoid or other components that the computer has control of. If any of those components start drawing too much current they can overload the quad driver and burn it out, effectively destroying the computer.
If that is actually the case in yours, you not only have to replace the computer but also find out what burnt it out. This is highly technical diagnosis that most mechanics can't even perform so you may be over your head in this one.
We don't even know if that is the reason the car won't start. That's just a wild ass guess as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't have much confidence it it.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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BuickChick99
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Sep 29, 2015, 5:23 PM
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I'd say it doesn't want to start because the ignition control module is probably done. This is my problem child car. I have a GM dealership willing to do the computer work fairly cheap, about 160$ total after I get a new ECM. It would not surprise me if it's finally out, the battery was dead as well but after a short charge with my jump box, I had enough power to test the system. (The car had been sitting for a little bit, dead battery was to be expected) The solenoid in the trans may actually have a physical problem, causing more issues in the computer. But I don't do much of the technical stuff, mainly all I do is the motor work. I've worked on a few chevy small blocks and my friends bring me their cars to fix on small to moderate problems. I can completely re do a chevy small block with financing and time. Lots of time. Lol. the electronics aspect isn't really my strong suit, but I've been working on cars since I was wee little with my dad. So it's just been whatever normal wear and tear issues come up, in the motor or elsewhere. But sometimes I need advice from people who know more about cars than I do.
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kev2
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Sep 29, 2015, 7:00 PM
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lets slow down on the quad failure theory....there are several different DTC descriptions - based on 8th character of vin.....post 8th character of vin... this is a old system 20+ years, memory and info get lost....
there is 82 for ign yes AND some models have a 82 for trans solenoids (just google code82) .... solenoid issue sounds like your system....
suggest you work the no start, do the basics...spark at several plugs, fuel pressure, inj pulse*....then get correct code definition list - then we should regroup....
*this is a MPI?
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BuickChick99
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Sep 29, 2015, 8:07 PM
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Re: Quad drivers info needed please
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Eighth character of vin is M.
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BuickChick99
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Sep 29, 2015, 8:18 PM
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I should make a note, the vehicle ran a month ago. Started up easily as always and was allowed to idle for about 10-15 minutes. The computer reader said 82 was ignition control failure 3x but the system on our computers at the shop said it was transmission solenoid A failure. Hence my confusion with this car.
Although you can read everything the computer puts out with the Bosch reader and it's never been inaccurate on that part before. I'd never paid attention to the lower end of the list where the drivers are noted. It said 1 and 4 were bad and 2 and 3 were ok
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 30, 2015, 2:13 AM
Post #7 of 23
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Re: Quad drivers info needed please
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On your vehicle the code 82 means "Ignition Control 3X signal error"
Nothing in that code states you ignition control module is bad. It can be any number of things in the circuit and needs to be troubleshooted correctly.
CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
A 3X low resolution crankshaft position sensor is mounted in the block near a seven slot reluctor wheel fixed to the crankshaft. A voltage pulse is transmitted to the electronic Ignition Control Module (ICM) each time a slot in the wheel is aligned to the sensor. Six slots account for each cylinder with a seventh slot indicating a synchronizing pulse which allows the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) to determine correct crank position. These pulses directly control spark timing and enable the fuel injectors.
Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) 82 Will Set When: If no 3X reference pulses are detected by the PCM during cranking, a DTC 82 will be set.
Action Taken (PCM will default to): The engine will not start, a DTC 82 will be stored and the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) will remain illuminated.
DTC 82 Will Clear When: A current DTC 82 is cleared immediately after key "OFF," or when the engine is running. A History DTC 82 will clear after 50 consecutive ignition key cycles without a current DTC 82 being stored.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 30, 2015, 4:48 AM
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Re: Quad drivers info needed please
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The 3x crank sensor is on the back of the engine between the transaxle and engine block. Inspect the twisted yellow and purple wires and make sure they havn't chaffed on the rear cylinder head or got burned up on the exhaust somehow. If that is good, you need to use a DVOM or labscope to check the signal from it. If the ignition control module doesn't get the 3x crank sensor signal it won't have spark or injector pulse.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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BuickChick99
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Oct 8, 2015, 10:11 PM
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Good news everyone! I did backtrack on everything, and while I'm still sure the computer is on it's way out, I did find that the battery has shorted somewhere, I took everything I knew and pretty much threw it out the window and started over. So first step now is to find my trickle charger and charge the battery at 10 amps and see if that will bring it back, if not, then I'm goin to have to find a decent priced battery for it, 540cca. And start over from there. I do not look forward to tearing down the driver side suspension and side trans cover for the solenoid. I'm thinking it's A, it had a weird shift pattern from first to second and sometimes second to third but considering it's old and crotchety and completely rebuilt, sans trans, I could be wrong and it's both or the computer. Dealership is willing to work on that. My next check is already gone.
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Hammer Time
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Oct 9, 2015, 1:59 AM
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Re: Quad drivers info needed please
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It is beyond me how you make the jump from a quad driver in the computer to a dead battery. How do you not know your battery is dead?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Oct 9, 2015, 4:17 AM
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One point: Quote ">>trickle charger and charge the battery at 10 amps<<"
10 amps is lower rate but not trickle charging - 1.5 to 2amps is just takes tons longer and much nicer to a battery in almost all cases and types if you have the time, T
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Discretesignals
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Oct 9, 2015, 4:19 AM
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I'm confused too. I thought this was a no start problem.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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BuickChick99
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Oct 9, 2015, 8:58 AM
Post #13 of 23
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Re: Quad drivers info needed please
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The charger I have doesn't do less than 10, or so it says. It's not the greatest in the world.
As for the person confused and "it's beyond me" I had enough power to run accessory stuff. No issue with the lights and radio after charging it with the jump box. It was dead as a door nail before the jump box. The battery is literally at 11.4 volts. Tried a deep cycle charge to bring it back and it tested bad at oreillys. I haven't worked on this darn car in nearly a year.
No. The car didn't start. There wasn't enough juice from the battery to turn it over. But there was enough to run the computer reader on it and come up with the diagnostics. Now, I will try that again with a fresh battery, maybe it needed more juice as well. Although I doubt that because of 1 and 4 being bad but not all.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 9, 2015, 9:09 AM
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Charging with 10 amps is generally fine and not way too fast to burn it out which can be done. 11.4V showing on actual battery alone AFTER charger removed and thought done as much as it can means it's toast. 12.6V is perfect just FYI.
I say this like a broken record that lead/acid batteries don't like being discharged or charged back up fast. Both happen, can ruin a good battery and ruin an alternator trying too hard and play ping pong doing those one at a time if not both good at once.
Also know GM side posts are their own problem so make certain those are good. Eyelet inside can be junk and the bolt clean and tight and not deliver amps to start. Just FYI stuff.
If you have a known vehicle and a voltmeter you can test your own battery and forget the places that don't know how anyway,
T
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BuickChick99
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Oct 9, 2015, 3:11 PM
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Thank you Tom. You were very helpful. It could be any of that. This car is such a headache. I know how to fix the trans issue but it's nothing compared to the rest of the work I have to do on it.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 10, 2015, 1:16 AM
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Cars/things are a headache in general. Anything car or home - ANYTHING has to have correct power or not much else or testing will mean much. Doesn't matter - coffee maker isn't working for example and find it's unplugged!
This is general and common to things all over. It's a side note but common for techs of whatever to have more than one device that is common. Ex: I'm done, retired from this and still have (just a mind scan) 10 volt/ohm meters or just voltmeters, a dozen or more tire pressure gauges mechanical or digital 8 batteries I use is pertinent. Tested and on maintainers all the time and when in doubt two tests must match as I don't trust all the test devices all the time either - causes hair loss!
Trust me, wrong info is worse than NO info, T
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BuickChick99
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Oct 10, 2015, 10:17 AM
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I completely agree. I work in industrial security/safety, which is pretty darn close working with engineering and maintenance. The things those guys do is astounding. But sadly I don't make enough to manage this cars issue. When I took it to one shop while it was running and wasn't shifting, I had it on video and the guy said the tranny was slipping and it needed replaced and quoted me about 2600. Moved out of my now ex fiances house and took it on the rollback to my old house. Started it up a week later and drive it without issue to the local tranny shop and they found nothing wrong with it other than a bad Throttle Positioning Sensor. The dang thing has been replaced and it still continues to do the stupid crap. He said it could be the computer or something electrical even then, September 2014.
When it started doing the weird no shift thing, he said it would be easier to replace it at 1600$. The other shop in town said it would be 600 alone to take the side case off and do it that way. Hence why I need to do this myself. I have the knowledge I just can't explain everything properly. I just... Do things.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 10, 2015, 10:40 AM
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I'm trying to picture this whole scene! OMG! From shops that have told you a new or redo of whole trans for $1,600 to a TPS that could have been checked with a just seen $9.99 buck analog volt/ohm meter and it wasn't the problem, the plug to it could have been!
Now with what I'll just call a break up of a relationship and move because of that I ask if this "other" person or situation could have involved vandalizing the car. Any decent jerk could take a sharp scratch awl and poke wires and things and really make a mess.
If even with this thought to be bad battery it can't read proper voltage alone with engine running if you can it should. A car will run with under or low voltage for a while but not for long. Just a sudden alternator failure if you shut everything off you can you might make a whole hour or so off a good battery needed for fuel pump and spark + computer controls of both still drain out a good battery, begins to run lousy till it will quit. First time a fix and charge battery if any good is enough.
If (you might know best) vandalism especially if vandal had a clue what to wreck makes this impossible on a site to even declare it fixable or not. Item by item you can know not the whole show all at once,
T
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BuickChick99
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Oct 10, 2015, 11:01 AM
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It's possible. I don't think this was vandalism in the tranny, but it's been vandalized before. My exes new girl, was his ex yada yada, I'm fairly certain she's the one who torqued the lug nuts down so hard the studs broke off. His neighbor saw me ranting about it on Facebook and said she thought she had seen me working on it that night around midnight. I was asleep then. And he weighs about 290lbs. She weighs about 130.
I had to completely disassemble the passenger side to pull the wheel bearing and break the broken ones loose. I always torque to spec with a torque wrench. It wouldn't be hard however for a woman to do that damage standing on a tire iron. Not hard at all. I drove from his town where I was staying, when we tried to get back together, 26 miles to my town. I made it to the bridge before the next to last busted. So about 20 miles on two or three lug nuts and studs, the last one went when it was moved to the bay for repair so it got fixed in the lot. It was towed about 5 miles to the nearest parts place, oreillys. I love that store. And across the street is where we fixed it. A little tire/lube shop with good guys. I couldn't figure out what was wrong until I heard it ping when one broke. It felt like busted band in the tire. Called my ex and he left me stranded on the side of a highway entrance ramp. I had mentioned there was something wrong with it that night and he didn't seen too worried. Haha I'm glad I'm away from that mistake. My cars are more important than a relationship.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 10, 2015, 11:52 AM
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Hey - If you have real Vandalism ongoing or just once or possibly ongoing what could we possibly do for you?
I don't know of a way to fix some problem if it can just happen again and again so somehow you have to stop that part of the problem so there's anything to work with or I personally am lost with this,
T
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BuickChick99
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Oct 10, 2015, 7:44 PM
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I got out of that relationship. And stay far away from the person who started it. I did my time in the military and I have no desire to deal with anyone messing with my cars, or anything else for that matter. The driveway where my cars and motorcycles sit now is under constant surveillance. Nothing has happened to my cars in my driveway. That incident happened at my exes house.
Now that that has been somewhat settled, no, I don't think the car has been vandalized to cause the solenoid issue. I think it's purely on the cars age, and wear and tear. Anything is possible but it's not probable. The wheel incident was isolated. Although somewhat costly in towing and repairs. The battery is a value craft (value crap) battery. It wouldn't surprise me if it's just a two year old piece of junk. I have some friend looking for a decent affordable battery now. Parts store workers and the like. Maybe the battery will come back to par with a slow charge but I'll just replace it anyway. Much easier and less time wasted.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 10, 2015, 11:45 PM
Post #22 of 23
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Re: Quad drivers info needed please
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Where are we going with this? Got all caught up in side issues, bad info and so on?
Battery now: All depends on what's available to you. It's totally possible to get good used and bad new ones. They are dated if not clearly are marked in the plastic for month and year it was made.
Brands: Sometimes pot luck. Favs have been over years and things change quickly so with a grain of salt: Interstate once thought well of, Napa had good stock and choice of good or better plus like or trust the handling of them there (for me) better than non auto people who are famous for working at (no harm meant to anyone) the well known big box outlets. Either you are dealing with THE person/people and the quality of stuff the places will sell.
Kinda need a small one now myself - something else. Noticed some time ago about a doubling of good battery prices fast! For myself and is curling my hair would love a gel cell dual post universal wild CCA with strap battery to carry with me in vehicle used most both as a jumper and fit most cars. [ Don't do this but it's on a trickle charge constantly from vehicle's power that WAS to a trunk light then on trickle when parked all the time. Trouble is that it's about $300+ bucks? IDK, fine but mostly a spare or sell it on a road call I'll do now still for a few but it's not worth it for them and needs to be less than a year old by rights to them.
Watch that when buying new! Some are over a year old new - don't buy those. I'll even wait and can for another less than 3 months and another day to charge it before installation when needed/wanted by time alone at some point. Napa dumps all their batteries that don't sell within a year BTW as policy but they don't charge them in stock like any either. New isn't fully charged and IMO not really best to just dump in till topped up to full charge in a victim vehicle that had trouble but have no choice many times. Nobody knows it but just filling them new they are mostly charged not fully charged and lose charge in storage slowly.
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Back to your car, situation and choices: Is it plain time for another car, well checked out? History on this isn't so great plus some wild expenses lurk that are known but so are they with used if you go that way so helps for a full check up pre-purchase.
Other: For goodness sakes get a good motor club membership like AAA but not necessarily them in your area. Check out which one and what benefits. Here AAA is my vehicles registry, 100 mile included towing, discounts at a lot of places it's free to have. I don't want their drivers to touch my vehicles nor sell me anything and tow only where I want not their paid shops to be on their list necessarily. If I was stuck wildly away from home base would seek out their help and guaranteed work by a shop I'd never see again plus a place to stay if needed for a fix I couldn't do away from home base OR other if vehicle was wrecked or something.
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So, is it time to bail out and get another?
T
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BuickChick99
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Oct 11, 2015, 2:15 AM
Post #23 of 23
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Re: Quad drivers info needed please
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I've had a lot of bad info. If this was a Humvee I would have already had it fixed lol. As nice as it would be to get another car, it would actually be a cheaper option to just fix this one. As annoying as it sounds. I have the Buick as well but that car is shared between me and my mom. I'm going to try to take it off her hands once enough money comes in, sell or junk the chevy if needed and put that toward a newer, probably truck, something she isn't liable to tear up. That Buick is an amazing car. Didn't like it at first but it was a much better option than the PT cruiser she wanted because she thought I would think it was "cute". Lol.
As for the chevy, right now it's a wait and see game. My work functions on contracts and we have some of the better ones, but I can't work at two companies at once doing this job. So the money is tight most if the time. And it's a double edged sword thing, make money fix the chevy, get better job, or lose what I have to try to find something out east where mom works, make more money doing a different job for the same pay, and hope to fix the chevy. If we had that second car running it would be so much easier. There's no way with car prices around here being what they are, especially at these hole in the wall dealerships, to afford a used car. And financing makes it worse. I'm 24, ex military with barely good credit. Most places don't give discounts to vets anymore, at least here.
I'm just hoping some car buddies can find me a side post battery that isn't completely junk, and start doing my testing. Now if the IGN CONTROL mod is bad, then the car is going to the scrap yard. I won't have everything at once breaking down on it. It's expensive enough on my salary to have to replace a battery and solenoid, I refuse to add 145 for the module and another 200 for a used ECM and installation, plus tow fees for 30 miles. That would be outlandish for such an old car. It would be almost worth it to junk it and buy a beater that still runs.
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