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Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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etbrown4
Novice
Dec 20, 2014, 3:11 PM
Post #1 of 15
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Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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I have a 12v solenoid with the standard two large terminals and it has TWO small terminals.
When I jump across the two large terminals with a screwdriver, the starter motor just spins but does not engage the motor.
Can anyone tell me how to troubleshoot it?
I'd also like to know how to manually jump this solenoid so I can crank the motor.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 20, 2014, 4:03 PM
Post #2 of 15
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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You might want to tell somebody what the year, make, model and engine size is.
Is this solenoid mounted on the firewall or the starter itself?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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etbrown4
Novice
Dec 20, 2014, 4:14 PM
Post #3 of 15
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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This is on a 60;s model kit car.
The solenoid is on the firewall.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 20, 2014, 4:23 PM
Post #4 of 15
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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Does it have another one on the starter itself or is it an old Ford style without one.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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etbrown4
Novice
Dec 20, 2014, 4:29 PM
Post #5 of 15
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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It has no solenoid on the starter, just on the firewall
the two small terminals are what's throwing me. I'm sure one gets 12 v from the key. No idea on the other.
Looking at auto parts stores, they seem to stock lots of both styles.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 20, 2014, 4:34 PM
Post #6 of 15
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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One of the small terminals os marked "S". That is the one you apply power to to trigger the solenoid but if your starter is just spinning, you have a bad starter because it doesn't have a solenoid. When the solenoid is triggered it connects the two large terminals internally. The other small terminal is a 12v output when in crank position. That was generally used for points type systems to bypass the resister during cranking so the points would get a full 12v during cranking.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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etbrown4
Novice
Dec 20, 2014, 5:05 PM
Post #7 of 15
(1893 views)
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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A clue might be found at link deleted ........... not allowed
If this link works, scroll down about 1/4 way down the page to see the first line drawing or sketch - a 4 wire sketch. For the setup pictured it seems that there are two windings in that solenoid - one 'pull in' winding and one 'hold in' winding. That may explain my 4 wires.
I don't think I have I and S terminals, so possibly I have 2 windings in the solenoid. It is hard to know.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 20, 2014, 5:09 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 20, 2014, 5:10 PM
Post #8 of 15
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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I don't know what you are showing me that for. You don't even have that starter or a circuit anything like that.
I deleted your link because they are not allowed here.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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etbrown4
Novice
Dec 20, 2014, 9:28 PM
Post #9 of 15
(1879 views)
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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Turns out we don't have the I and S terminals.
After ohming out the solenoid, the second small terminal is just a ground!
Since this starter motor from the beginning would spin freely with 12v applied when jumped across the solenoid, it has to be the bendix or equivalent, now.
Oddly the solenoid appears to be bad too, as operated alone, it would just click and not spin the starter motor.
I'm always doubtful when a diagnosis yields two things inoperable, however it seems likely that's what we have here.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 21, 2014, 12:30 AM
Post #10 of 15
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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etbrown4: Quick read sorry. Ford or most with solenoid off starter and when anyway you empower starter if it just humms away but not engage that's the starter drive not throwing out gear which it does by centrifugal force and retracts when starter isn't empowered/spinning. That or somehow it does throw out drive gear and doesn't reach the flywheel/ring gear or it's totally missing teeth?
Starter drives are sold separately or whole starter comes with a new one.
My note here has NOTHING to do with a solenoid at all or if an engine starts, runs or not just how the starter works on that type.
You could test this on the floor without a vehicle at all - just the starter and power.
Pic if shows>>>>
Was there^^^^
T
NOTE: Those gears on anything only hold one way and free spin the other on purpose........ That's so if starter is held on when an engine starts it spins that little gear. They will be reversed for counter rotating applications - anything from a lawn tractor to a vehicle........
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Dec 21, 2014, 12:36 AM)
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etbrown4
Novice
Jan 26, 2015, 9:02 PM
Post #12 of 15
(1777 views)
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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One problem and one mystery solved!
The second small terminal on the solenoid was a ground, the other small terminal was a 12v terminal. It operates just like a solenoid with a single small terminal which gets its ground from the frame. How do I know ? - I drilled out the rivets and disassembled the solenoid!
The starter spinning problem, was exactly what one poster thought. The spring on the starter gear was sticky. Though it was slight, it was just enough to keep the starter gear from engaging. Thus when 12v was applied from the key the starter just would spin and not engage the motor.
The solution was about 2 drops of oil and working the gear and spring up and down the shaft a few times to free it up. bingo!
thanks to all offering tips!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 27, 2015, 3:00 AM
Post #13 of 15
(1772 views)
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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Question closed as solved.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 27, 2015, 5:24 AM
Post #14 of 15
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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Funny. The OP was asking what the terminals on the solenoid where for. Then HT explains how it works and what they are for. Then the OP tries to school HT on how a starter solenoid works even though the OP is clueless. Why did the OP even create this thread if he had all the answers?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 27, 2015, 8:04 AM
Post #15 of 15
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Re: Troubleshooting Starter Solenoid - Old School
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I just bit my tongue and closed the question.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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