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hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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jrauto4u
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Aug 5, 2014, 7:14 PM
Post #1 of 12
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hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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I have a 1984 Mercury Grand Marquis 5.0. Intermittently the solenoid will stick and cause the starter to continue to run. You can hit the fender well by the solenoid and the solenoid will disengage. I have installed 3 starters and 4 solenoids. Last solenoid was an Echlin brand from Napa. There seems to be a higher than normal current draw although my meter says I am pulling 220A. I have isolated the starter circuit from the car to verify that circuit is good. New battery and cables. Solenoid sticking is the symptom and high current draw I think is the problem. Just cannot put my finger on it. I took one of the solenoids apart and the contact plates already have deep arch pits. I have no resistance from battery to starter casing. Good ground from battery to block and body. Usually this would just be a solenoid problem but I have used 4 different solenoids of different grades from 2 different companies and still have the same problem. Signal from ignition switch working correctly, problem even occurs using a power probe to actuate solenoid. All of this failure happening within 5 days. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks.
(This post was edited by jrauto4u on Aug 5, 2014, 7:16 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 5, 2014, 7:16 PM
Post #2 of 12
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Re: hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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I had one like that and it turned out to be a body ground not connected.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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jrauto4u
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Aug 5, 2014, 7:18 PM
Post #3 of 12
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Re: hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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Has new cables positve and negative. Are you suggesting installing a new different ground to the body?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 5, 2014, 10:58 PM
Post #4 of 12
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Re: hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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Look at neg - cable that goes to engine block. That ground just engine not body at all so straps are the common way or direct from some cables to body metal both from block to body and block to frame and again in other places as needed thru vehicle.
Even exhaust on these are grounded at last hanger of tail pipe to frame! They aren't there for cosmetics so needed.
You can add generic braided eyelet ended straps from known ground metal to other with existing bolts.
I should know exactly but also should be one from transmission to body or frame. Any should be checked at this age with a problem like this and cleaned up and greased.
Note: When same problem of this sort happens second time with new parts that could do that look for another cause. By a third failure time to forget defective parts IMO,
T
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 6, 2014, 3:11 AM
Post #6 of 12
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Re: hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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Right! There should be at least broken or bad ones there. If NG they are a stock item just ask for them by length you want. Again, engine block to body and to frame as well and this should behave. Not sure but inner fender for solenoid may need ground if plastic as later years were,
T
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 6, 2014, 4:21 AM
Post #7 of 12
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Re: hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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You would think a bad ground would have the opposite effect. I wonder what the theory is behind something like that?
Did you use an inductive clamp to measure the amperage? 200+ amps isn't abnormal for a starter motor without gear reduction.
Have you tried a Motorcraft starter solenoid?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 6, 2014, 4:24 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 6, 2014, 4:53 AM
Post #8 of 12
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Re: hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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Good thought DS. As the guys know I've owned and own two now a tad newer- same basics or should be. Just looked. Solenoid mounted to metal of fender under hood and a ground WIRE is back on metal (not braided) by blower motor goes into a wiring loom but can only be ground.
Trigger wire is push on w red wire and should NOT have power or bat+ power when key released. One and only one bat+ cable goes on to starter. Short cable has plenty of other items and fusible links just tapping power at the solenoid.
I've NEVER had this issue with countless ones of about exactly this car's platform.
FORDs had ignition switch issues that no doubt including this car. Problem was short at switch if faulty and fire was the hazard not this as I remember. Never heard of one failing either to burn but was recalled.
If there was a trickle of residual power to that trigger wire it just might keep starter going? If unplugging it stays on it's a mystery to me and thinking of how or why now. Just happens as said this is a NEVER problem in the manner described to me concept of plunger solenoid like that dates back forever with few problems.
Ha - one just looked at said "Motorcraft" known OE and did bother to state on it NOT to replace with anything but theirs. I say bullsh*t as it's a dumb solenoid. Yes on excessive heat could make a plunger inside stick but dammit never mind meters it would be hot to touch!
Just don't wipe out starter and or "flywheel" gear in this with tests if at all possible.
Again - this has too many replacements already IMO for defective to be in the cards IMO,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 6, 2014, 5:01 AM
Post #9 of 12
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Re: hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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That wasn't a theory. It was a verified fix for the exact same problem. I suspect somehow the starter was pulling ground through the solenoid. I don't remember the details of what I found but I found a broken body ground wire that solved the problem immediately and permanently.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 6, 2014, 5:11 AM
Post #10 of 12
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Re: hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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I believe it. ZERO harm to just use jumper right from battery right near to ground solenoid as a test if need be. I can't believe a solenoid which is a magnetic plunger could work without both power and ground and fender is bolted welded perhaps all over but if mounting surface is messes up - junk added who knows?
Whacking the fender seemed to disengage this suggests perhaps ground isn't getting to the solenoid but can't believe it unless lots of things are funky with this car also.
Is this car so rusted about anything possible? That too
T
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Hammer Time
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Aug 6, 2014, 6:34 AM
Post #11 of 12
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Re: hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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I don't think it was necessarily an engine to body ground. I believe it was a grounding point for other components that wasn't attached.
If I remember right, it was near the passenger firewall.
This was an older T-Bird I had the problem with if I remember right.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 6, 2014, 6:35 AM)
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Discretesignals
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Aug 6, 2014, 4:44 PM
Post #12 of 12
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Re: hanging starter 84 grand marquis
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That's easy to figure out. Take your volt meter and touch something metal on the body with your meter connected on the battery negative while everything is turned on in the vehicle. If you have more than 0.5 volts, you have a bad body ground.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 6, 2014, 4:46 PM)
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