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Todd Norton
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Feb 13, 2009, 7:00 PM
Post #1 of 11
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cavalier headache
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hi hope someone can help . i am presently working on a 1997 chev cavalier z24 with 2.4l quad 4 ,new customer today comes in with driveability problem .scan test reveals dtc P0132 o2 sensor rich .performed tests in flochart for p0132 checked out ok but tried o2 anyway (only 38 bucks) no change .vehicle runs perfect one minute and chuggs down and stalls the next . vehicle is running really rich and acts like it has a plugged exhaust or an egr problem but it doesnt , i checked that and just about everthing else . after a little while i noticed that occasionally my scanner would reset or temp loose communication and when the code is current , check engine lite on , system in open loop , vehicle would run well . but when i cleared the code and the vehicle enters closed loop operation this is when it would run extremely rough and stall . the computer and wiring show no evidence of external damage but they have been known to be problematic im leaning toward replacing the computer but would like to be sure any thoughts or advice would be great thanx todd
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Loren Champlain Sr
Veteran
/ Moderator
Feb 13, 2009, 7:06 PM
Post #2 of 11
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Re: cavalier headache
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Todd; Make sure engine is maintaining operating temp so that it stays in closed loop. Also, check MAP and fuel pressure regulator. Low engine vacuum will cause both to go rich.
Loren
SW Washington
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Todd Norton
User
Feb 13, 2009, 7:21 PM
Post #3 of 11
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Re: cavalier headache
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Loren , engine operating temp maintains about 89C seemed a little bit low to me but customer insists it is normal for this car and never caused problems before . map sensor operating properly and fuel pressure and regulator to exact spec, engine vacuum also good at near 20 but does drop gradually down to 0 when it starts chugging and running rough . thank you
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Todd Norton
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Feb 13, 2009, 7:29 PM
Post #4 of 11
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DanD
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Feb 14, 2009, 5:05 AM
Post #5 of 11
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Re: cavalier headache
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Here's some info I found on this code; a bit drawn out but might help?
Don't miss the note and link at the bottom of this post.
Dan.
Circuit Description
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) supplies a voltage of about 0.45 volt between the O2S signal and the ground circuit. The Oxygen Sensor (O2S 1) varies the voltage within a range of about 1 volt if the exhaust is rich, down through about 0.10 volt if the exhaust is lean.
The sensor is like an open circuit and produces no voltage when below 315°C (600°F). An open sensor circuit or a cold sensor causes an Open Loop operation.
If there is damage to the oxygen sensor pigtail wiring, the connector or the terminal, replace the entire oxygen sensor assembly. Do not attempt to repair the wiring, the connector or the terminals. The sensor must have a clean air reference provided in order to function properly. This clean air reference is obtained by way of the oxygen sensor wire(s). Any attempt to repair the wires, the connectors or the terminals could result in the obstruction of the air reference and degrade the oxygen sensor performance. Refer to Heated Oxygen Sensor (O2S) Repair.
Conditions for Setting the DTC
• DTCs P0106, P0107, P0112, P0113, P0117, P0118, P0121, P0122, P0123, P0200, P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0506, P0507, P1336, P1404, P1441 not set.
• The engine run time is greater than 25 seconds
• Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) is greater than 70°C (158°F)
• The Throttle Position (TP) angle is between 5 percent and 50 percent
• The Air/fuel ratio is between 14.5:1 and 14.7:1
• The engine is operating in a Closed Loop operation
• The engine has met the above conditions for 25 seconds
• The O2S 1 voltage is greater than 1042 mV for 50 to 75 seconds
OR
• The O2S 1 voltage is greater than 946 mV for 50 seconds while the TPS is between 8 percent and 50 percent.
Action Taken When the DTC Sets
• The Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) will illuminate.
• The PCM will record the operating conditions at the time that the diagnostic fails. This information will store in the Freeze Frame and Failure Records buffers.
• A history DTC stores.
• The coolant fan turns ON.
• The vehicle will operate in an Open Loop operation.
Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
• The MIL will turn OFF after three consecutive ignition cycles in which the diagnostic runs without a fault.
• A history DTC will clear after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles without a fault.
• The MIL/DTCs can be cleared by using the scan tool.
Diagnostic Aids
The DTC P0132 or rich exhaust is most likely caused by one of the following conditions:
• Fuel pressure - The system will go rich if fuel pressure is to high. The PCM can compensate for some increase, however, if it gets too high, a DTC P0132 will be set. Refer to the Fuel System Diagnosis .
• Leaking injector - A leaking or malfunctioning injector can cause the system to go rich causing a DTC P0132. Refer to the Fuel Injector Solenoid Coil Test .
• Electronic Ignition (EI) shielding - An open ICM reference low circuit may result in a EMI or induced electrical noise. The PCM looks at this noise as a Crankshaft Position (CKP) sensor pulses. The additional pulses result in a higher than actual engine speed signal. The PCM then delivers too much fuel causing the system to go rich. The engine tachometer will also show higher than actual engine speed which can help in diagnosing this problem.
• MAP sensor - An output that causes the PCM to sense a higher than normal manifold pressure (low vacuum) can cause the system to go rich. Disconnecting the MAP sensor will allow the PCM to set a fixed value for the MAP sensor. Substitute a different MAP sensor if the rich condition is gone while the sensor is disconnected.
• Pressure regulator - Check for a leaking fuel pressure regulator diaphragm by checking for the presence of liquid fuel in the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator.
• TP sensor - An intermittent TP sensor output will cause the system to go rich due to a false indication of the engine accelerating.
• O2S 1 contamination - Inspect the O2S 1 for silicone contamination from fuel or the use of improper RTV sealant. The sensor may have a white powdery coating and this will result in a high but false voltage signal (rich exhaust indication). The PCM will then reduce the amount of fuel delivered to the engine causing a severe surge or driveability problem.
Test Description
Number(s) below refer to the step number(s) on the Diagnostic Table.
The Powertrain OBD System Check prompts the technician to complete some basic checks and store the freeze frame and failure records data on the scan tool if applicable. This creates an electronic copy of the data taken when the fault occurred. The information is then stored in the scan tool for later reference.
This step determines if the DTC P0132 is the result of a hard malfunction or an intermittent condition. It may be necessary to operate the vehicle within the Freeze Frame conditions and Conditions for Setting the DTC in order to duplicate the fault detected by the PCM.
This step simulates a DTC P0131. If the PCM senses the change, the PCM and wiring are OK.
The replacement PCM must be reprogrammed and the crankshaft position system variation procedure must be preformed. Refer to the latest Techline procedures for PCM reprogramming and also refer to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) for the Crankshaft Position System Variation Procedure .
If no malfunction have been found at this point and no additional DTCs were set, refer to Diagnostic Aids for additional checks and information.
DTC P0132-Oxygen Sensor (O2S) Circuit High Voltage (Sensor 1) Step
Action
Value(s)
Yes
No
1
Was the Powertrain On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check performed?
--
Yes- Go to Step 2
No- Go to Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check
2
Turn the ignition switch ON, with the engine OFF.
Install a scan tool.
Engine at operating temperature.
Does the O2S 1 voltage remain above the specified value?
1042 mV
Yes- Go to Step 4
No- Go to Step 3
3
Review the Freeze Frame data and note the parameters.
Operate the vehicle within the Freeze Frame conditions and Conditions For Setting The DTC as noted .
Does the O2S 1 voltage stay above the specified value?
1042 mV
Yes- Go to Step 4
No- Go to Step 8
4
Disconnect the O2S 1 electrical connector.
Connect a DVM to ground and probe the O2S 1 electrical connector terminal (PCM side) and check for voltage.
Does the DVM indicate a O2S 1 voltage below the specified value?
600 mV (0.60V)
Yes- Go to Step 5
No- Go to Diagnostic Aids
5
Check the O2S 1 sensor signal circuit for a short to voltage and repair as necessary.
Was a repair necessary?
--
Yes- Go to Step 7
No- Go to Step 6
6
Replace the PCM.
Is the action complete?
--
Yes- Go to Step 7
--
7
If disconnected, reconnect the O2S 1 electrical connector.
Using the scan tool, clear the DTCs.
Start the engine and idle at normal operating temperature.
Operate the vehicle within the conditions for setting the DTC as specified in the supporting text.
Does the scan tool indicate that this diagnostic ran and passed.
--
Yes- Go to Step 8
No- Go to Step 2
8
Check if any additional DTCs are set.
Are any DTCs displayed that have not been diagnosed?
--
Yes- Go to applicable DTC table
No- System OK
Refer to Diagnostic Aids
---------------------------------------
Have a long look at the diagnostic aids; there are so many things that can throw this code and which you have found a sensor will not repair.
Also the O2 you used as a replacement; was it an OE or after markket?
I don't trust after market O2 sensors; sorry aftermarket.
Before condemning a PCM try going to the link below; there might be a reflash available to correct this issue?
It a free and open site for anyone to use.
You’ll have to use your scanner to retrieve the calibration code that this PCM is running on; most up to date scanners have this capability of accessing calibration code.
On my scanning I have to go to module status or module information to find the CAL. code.
Once at the site; enter the VIN and it will show you all of the updates available; if any.
If you do want to try reprogramming the PCM; you can’t pick and choose which one you want. You use the most recent and all prior will be included.
I have chased fault codes and running concerns, in the past and not found anything; the problem was a programming issue; that a reflash was the only repair.
Hope some of this helps?
Dan
http://tis2web.service.gm.com/tis2web
Canadian "EH"
(This post was edited by DanD on Feb 14, 2009, 5:07 AM)
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Jeff Norfolk
Enthusiast
Feb 14, 2009, 7:47 AM
Post #6 of 11
(8088 views)
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Re: cavalier headache
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Tod here is some info I found on iATN web site. Sounds like your synptoms.
TechHelp: 13. 1997 Chevrolet Cavalier, Poor-idle/Misfire
<< Back PreviousNext
Rating:
Status: Closed w/Fix
Comments: No Comments
Replies: 11 (View Replies)
From: Mike Niemants
Date: Sep 16, 2004 11:46:56 AM
REPLY: Click here to reply to this FIX!
1997 Chevrolet Cavalier
Engine: 2.4 L / 146 CID / 4 cyl / Gas / DOHC
Fuel: Fuel Injection
Ignition: Distributorless
Trans: 5-speed Standard Transaxle
Mileage: 61,179 mi
Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
VIN: 1G1JF12T6V
Symptoms: Poor Idle Quality, Misfire
Occurs: Cold, Intermittently
More Info: Test results included below
_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________
hello all,
The vehicle runs just fine 99% of the time. It only seems to
act up after its been running 2 or 3 minutes(cold). The engine
begins to run rough and gets worse until it almost stalls. It
will only run bad for a few seconds, Then it clears out and
runs fine the rest of the day or until it cools down and you
restart it. Ive also noticed it is happening right after the
computer goes into closed loop. Short term fuel trim rapidly
goes from 0 to -42% then the computer goes back into open
loop. havent seen anything in scan data that would cause it to
run rich. fuel pressure reg. not leaking fuel. fuel pressure
as its acting up remains good. We have tried different
O2(front)twice,map sensor,plugs,ignition module,cam &
crank sensor,ecm,coolant temp sender and IAC motor. thank you
for your valuable time and input. Mike
MANIFOLD VACUUM READINGS
Idle: 20 in.
Checked for codes and none were found.
TESTING AND RESULTS
fuel pressure - good running, static & flow exhuast
backpressure - ok oil pressure - good even during poor idle
cond. engine mech. timing - ok res. check injectors - ok eng.
compression - ok
po123x, po68839x
____________________________ FIX ___________________________
think we finaly fixed this one, customer has had the vehicle a
week and no problems yet. found out after I had posted for
help that the running problems started after the customer had
replaced the o2 sensor with an aftermarket unit. The o2's we
had tried were also aftermarket. Tried a factory o2 and that
seems to be the remedy:) The only difference I can see
different is the factory o2 seemed to take a little longer to
go into closed loop and was more active when it did. thanx for
the help, Mike
Mike Niemants
Owner
Custom Engineering
Omaha, Nebraska, USA
REPLY: Click here to reply to this FIX!
Jeff
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Jeff Norfolk
Enthusiast
Feb 14, 2009, 7:51 AM
Post #7 of 11
(8087 views)
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Re: cavalier headache
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Here is another that was interesting.
____________________________ FIX ___________________________
Recieved a few e-mails regarding a tsb on the oil pressure
relief valve in the oil pump cover assembly. Put a mechanical
gauge in place of sending unit, and thats what it was. Outside
temp was around 0 degrees and on start up oil pressure WENT TO
195 PSI at 1500 rpm, which is way above spec for even the
coldest temps, vehicle then proceeded to stall. Re tested
about an hour later oil press was 50 psi at idle with no
stall. Thanks to everyone who responded and informed me about
the tsb. I would've never thought of the oil pump cover
assembly as the culprit for a vehicle with an intermittant
stall. Thanks again.
Jeff
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Todd Norton
User
Feb 15, 2009, 9:05 AM
Post #8 of 11
(8065 views)
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Re: cavalier headache
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thank you i have tried a factory o2 sensor as a rule i always use factory components when it comes to o2 , pcv, egr and some others but your right this oil pressure fix is very interesting it is probly the only thing on this car that i haven't put a guage on ,i'll try that thanx again
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Todd Norton
User
Feb 15, 2009, 1:27 PM
Post #9 of 11
(8058 views)
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Re: cavalier headache
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thanx to all who responded, alot of useful information I will put to good use on tuesday ,monday is a holiday, happy family day everyone, thanx again
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Jeff Norfolk
Enthusiast
Feb 15, 2009, 5:58 PM
Post #10 of 11
(8051 views)
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Re: cavalier headache
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You are welcome. Hope it helps. My shop is open this Monday. Hoping to flag 20 or so to make it worth it!
Jeff
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Carcrazy1
User
Mar 27, 2009, 5:34 AM
Post #11 of 11
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Re: cavalier headache
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(posts with hyperlinks in sign off will all be deleted or unavailable from this user)
Sorry - but this is not a free ad or spam spot! I don't see how "Luxury Hotels" have much to do with the subject,
TG-2009
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Mar 27, 2009, 6:17 AM)
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