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1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 26, 2013, 5:29 PM
Post #26 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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just gauge. I took it off and tested with ignition on and sucked with pressure. At 6hg it is at 3.3v. That is the most I can get it manually. Should I go get a vacuum pump also?
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 26, 2013, 5:31 PM
Post #27 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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just a gauge. I took off the map sensor and checked voltage while manually sucking. 6hg is the highest I can get this way and hold steady. At 6 hg it is reasing 3.3v solid
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 26, 2013, 5:36 PM
Post #28 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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I do not know, obviously I have not a clue what I am doing buck I am usually mechanical, just not good with electronics on engines. What is the best way to test this issue? basically the truck cuts in and out at times when accelerating almost feels like it is running out of gas. I accelerate hard and it comes out of it usually until rpms and acceleration go back down then it starts to sputter again. Seems like it does worse when it is cold and gets better when warming up.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 26, 2013, 5:37 PM
Post #29 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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Not having a pump kinds defeats the intent of testing the sensor.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 26, 2013, 5:42 PM
Post #30 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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ok, going to get one right now.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 26, 2013, 5:46 PM
Post #31 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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You would have more control with a pump than your mouth, but at 6 inhg 3.3 volts is about right. Do you understand the correlation between the voltage and pressure the sensor senses? Lower vacuum equals higher voltage and higher vacuum equals lower voltage. You really want to test the full swing of the sensor to be sure it is operating properly.
If the sensor's voltage properly corresponds to the vacuum you apply to it and doesn't drop out or go high voltage, the sensor is good. From there you really need to monitor data stream information using an enhanced scan tool to see what the engine computer is seeing from the sensor.
I'm starting to wonder if something else is causing this code to set. 16 inches of vacuum at idle isn't all that great. Is the gauge steady, bouncing around, or slowly moving around at 16 inches during idle? Could have a vacuum leak or an ignition timing issue.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 26, 2013, 6:17 PM
Post #32 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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the gauge does not bounce at all during idling at around 16hg. I got a vacuum pump and everything seems about right, I got as follows
4.5-4.6 at 0hg
3.8 at 6hg
3.3 at 9hg
2.5 at 14hg
2.2 at 16hg
1.7 at 18hg
1.4 at 20hg
So it seems to me like the map sensor is working right then so something else has to be causing it to throw that code then. I checked all of the lines that I could see and they do not seem to have any issues. I got some new fitting when I went to the auto store and replaced a bunch of them. It is just weird how this only happens when rpms are down around 2000 usually and other times it is fine. Plus it acts up more in the cold than the heat. It is a 93 so I did not think they could do advance diagnostics on it?
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 26, 2013, 6:29 PM
Post #33 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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Have you tested your TPS sensor using your volt meter. TPS is almost just like the MAP sensor. It has 5 volt reference, signal, and ground. You connect your meter to the signal circuit and meter ground lead to battery neg. Very slowly open the throttle while watching your meter. Should be around .5 volt closed to 4.5v wide open without any drop outs in between.
Orange/dark blue signal .5-4.5v
violet/white 5 volt reference 5v
black/light blue ground less than or equal to 0.1v
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 26, 2013, 6:36 PM)
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 26, 2013, 6:40 PM
Post #34 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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no I have not checked it, is that the sensor by the map sensor off to the right?
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Discretesignals
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Dec 26, 2013, 6:46 PM
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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It is screwed onto the side of the throttle body. The throttle plate shaft rotates the wiper inside the sensor.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 26, 2013, 6:47 PM
Post #36 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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Ok, I will get it checked out tomorrow over lunch. I cannot run the truck anymore this late since the kids are in bed now. I thank you for all of your help with this and I will post again as soon as a check it out. Again thank you for all your help.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 26, 2013, 6:57 PM
Post #37 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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No problem. It is hard to diagnose drive ability issues over the internet, but you do know the MAP sensor is working. Just don't understand why it set that code unless it was unplugged or had some type of intermittent circuit issue. I've seen MAP sensor codes set when there is a rationality issue because of the engine running really bad. I don't care for the 16 inches of vacuum at idle thing. It may get to the point that you will need to bring it to a shop that does drive-ability to figure it out. It might require scan tool data information to be read and other testing that requires more advanced diagnostic procedures and tooling.
Another thing is if this engine has a bunch of miles on it, it might be worn out. Worn out rings, timing chains, and other parts that affect manifold pressure will cause all kind of issues with fueling and ignition controls. The PCM relies a whole lot on manifold pressure for making critical calculations.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 26, 2013, 7:02 PM)
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 26, 2013, 7:29 PM
Post #38 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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yes atleast I now know that the map sensor works good. I do not have any idea why it would throw this code. The battery was reconnected after fuel pump replacement and it is the only code i get: 12, 14, 14 So I am not sure. the engine sounds great besides being a little loud with exhaust. it idles fine and is good sounding when revved up. I will check out the tps tomorrow and if that does not work I will get it to a mechanic and go from there, I just hate the ridiculous cost and inconvenience of taking it to someone when I am mechanical just not electrical system minded. The engine has about 160k miles on it and does burn/loose some oil so there may be some issue there. Too many electronics why can they just not have a damn engine nice and simple like it used to be, like the air compressor and generator engines I work on? Nice and simple, that is how I like it!
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 26, 2013, 7:42 PM
Post #39 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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Because big brother wants cars with reduced emissions that use less fuel, so the only way to accomplish that is to have a computer control everything.
Believe me, that system is simple in how it works compared to more modern systems. That system is actually easier to work on than computer control carburetors. This new stuff with VVTi, direct injection, 7 speed transmissions would blow your mind and it just keeps getting more and more complex. Not only are the ways fuel and emissions controls more complex in nature, but also how the software and data transmission between modules is constantly evolving. Mechanics/technicians are now becoming more like IT specialists.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 26, 2013, 7:56 PM)
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 27, 2013, 10:22 AM
Post #40 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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checked tps and I get 5v on common. On Orange I get .7v at closed throttle and 3.8v at wide open. Is this within normal range for the sensor?
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 27, 2013, 12:41 PM
Post #41 of 54
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According to service data the TPS voltage should be around 1 volt at idle and 3.5 volts at wide open throttle. It is important that you don't have any drop outs as you slowly open the throttle. Digital volt meters aren't really great for finding drop outs because their sampling rate is too slow. You really need something that can graph the signal such as a graphing multimeter or lab scope.
Looks like you may need to find someone with an enhanced scan tool or a DRB to watch data stream information. Even though it is an old truck they had datastream capabilities and bidirectional control on certain actuators.
You can test other sensors such as the engine coolant temperature sensor and the O2 sensor, but being able to look at all inputs and outputs at the same time would be so much easier.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 27, 2013, 4:55 PM
Post #42 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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Ok, I am taking it in on monday to a repair shop. Talked to them and they said they cannot hook up to computer. I do not think anyone in town has the old school testing stations they used to run. I will let you know what I find out though, thank you very much for all the help!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 27, 2013, 5:19 PM
Post #43 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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Any shop worth a damn has an OBD1 scan tool. If they don't have the capability, then you need a different shop. This isn't exotic equipment for them to own.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
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Dec 27, 2013, 6:28 PM
Post #44 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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One thing that those engines were known for was a leaking plenum pan gasket when they get old. The engine would suck oil up through the bottom of the intake. This would cause the engine to knock under acceleration, because the oil increases the compression, would cause the engine to burn excessive oil, and would cause a vacuum leak resulting in possible rough idle. It may be exacerbated when the engine is cold because things tend to shrink which make more of a leak.
With the air cleaner and engine off, open the throttle all the way and look at the floor of the intake with a flashlight. If you see oil laying down there, it is a good bet the gasket is done.
You can also disable and plug off the PCV system (vent and valve). Then connect your vacuum gauge to the dipstick tube. If the gasket is leaking, it will create vacuum in the crankcase while it is idling. That is if the crankcase is sealed, of course.
intake plenum pan gasket at top:
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 27, 2013, 6:34 PM)
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 27, 2013, 6:53 PM
Post #45 of 54
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Re: 1993 dodge dakota acceleration problems
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I took a look down past the throttle and it is all a caramel/oil color. There is not standing oil and does not appear to have oil currently in it. Will it be better if I take a look right after running the engine? I have been home for about 3 hours now, just wondering if that would make a difference or if the oil would stay there at the bottom.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 27, 2013, 7:21 PM
Post #46 of 54
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It will stay at the bottom. The caramel color may be baked on oil also.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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nickwarner
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Dec 29, 2013, 12:40 AM
Post #47 of 54
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[reply Talked to them and they said they cannot hook up to computer. I do not think anyone in town has the old school testing stations they used to run.
The big box analyzers are gone the way of the dodo, but a shop that doesn't even have an OBD 1 hookup to this is not equipped to do real driveability diagnostics. Anyone with a quality scan tool has these hookups. If they do not have the requisite tool, they no likely do not have the knowledge to diagnose this right, they will just throw parts at it until your wallet is paper thin. Don't shop the craigslist idiots and cheap shops. Your money is best spent with someone who knows what they are talking about in the long run.
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 29, 2013, 8:24 AM
Post #48 of 54
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I think almost all shops now carry the obd2 instead from what I can gather? I am not sure about this but I will definitely ask before I drop it off tomorrow morning. I do know that they said something about not being able to hook it up to a scan tool when I originally talked to them and told them is was a 1993. If they do not have one I will find someone who does. Thanks for the info!
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individualizedrepair
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Dec 29, 2013, 9:32 AM
Post #50 of 54
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I listened and understood what I was told but shops around here are probably not too interested in working on older model cars/trucks so they tell you all this so they have to charge you a large and timely diagnostic fee for doing nothing more than a driving scan. I did not know anything about scan tools and now I know a lot more and I appreciate the help and knowledge I need to have my truck worked on by someone who half knows what the hell is going on.
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