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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Feb 1, 2014, 6:09 PM
Post #1 of 7
(6821 views)
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2002 Dodge Stratus 2.7
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I did a head gasket and water pump on a 2002 Dodge Stratus with the 2.7. It was the first time I did an dual overhead cam and have the timing off. It started and idled, but if I gave it gas, it missed. I tore it back down. The 3 marks for the primary timing chain are still on but the links on the cams are now over by a tooth. I'm not very knowledgeable at all with this timing stuff so you're gonna have to bear with me.
I'm not sure if the primary chain just jumped a tooth or if I somehow did it reinstalling the cam sprockets. You know when you have to insert a 3/8 drive ratchet and turn the cams. (if that's even possible). If I line the marks up on my cams at 12:00 I do have 12 chain pins between both marks like you're suppose. Both sides of the engine are the same way so I assume that's a good thing. I'm thinking if I leave my cam marks at 12:00 I can just reset the primary chain and I'll be okay. I just don't want to guess and end up bending valves.
Is there a way to completely start from scratch? Kind of like if you put in new pistons. You have to start somewhere to get it in time. I read you can insert a dowel or screwdriver in the #1 cylinder and once it's at its highest point you're TDC. After that you line up your cam marks at 12:00 and then get your primary chain on your 3 marks.
I don't plan on completely removing everything and starting from scratch I'd just like to make sure my pistons are where they need to be and then see where my cams line up. If they are at 12:00 I should be good to go, right?
If I'm leaving out info or my info is way off, just let me know.
I shouldn't have jumped into this job as "blind" as I did.
Any help would be great.
Thanks!
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 2, 2014, 9:35 AM
Post #2 of 7
(6786 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Stratus 2.7
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Your going to have to pull the timing cover back off. The chain has marked links on it, so you get it timed right. I wouldn't rely on the screw driver method.
Did you get the updated chain kit with a dealer water pump?
Going to tell you that since you have it apart get the tensioner safety block, so your chain doesn't go flying off while your trying to get oil pressure up. If the chain comes off or jumps because the tensioner fails or goes limp, your going to be pulling the heads again. Believe me it happens with new tensioners.
Stop block...recommend it:
http://www.internalengineparts.com/CHRYTMG0711-08.pdf
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 2, 2014, 9:38 AM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 2, 2014, 10:35 AM
Post #3 of 7
(6776 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Stratus 2.7
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I just reread your post. Your talking about the secondary cam chains, right? As long as both marks are up on the cams and you have your 12 count between dots along with your cam spocket positioned correctly for the primary chain, you should be in time. I wouldn't rely using the marks on the chain because those marks will change position after the cams have been rotating. The marks are really there to insure you install the chain properly during assembly.
Was it idling nice? You might have something else going on that isn't timing chain related. Is it throwing code(s)? I still recommend the stop block though.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 2, 2014, 10:42 AM)
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Feb 3, 2014, 7:46 AM
Post #4 of 7
(6749 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Stratus 2.7
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Thanks DS....I was probably all over the place with that first post. I didn't know what the heck I was doing or what the heck I did wrong. I think what ended up happening is I somehow had my cams off. I think what happened is my 12:00 was going off of the ground and not the head. Since the heads are angled it through me off by a link.
After communicating with HT, and doing some basic research to get a better understanding of things, I now get what I need to do. He pretty much explained it all from the start it just took me a bit to grasp everything. Talk about him being patient. I know it has been cold but didn't realize hell froze over!...haha...I had never messed with a dual overhead cam, and the other day swore I'd never touch one again. Not anymore. I understand it all now.
I'm past the point of using any of the colored chain links to find my timing marks since my cams are off. I found TDC on the #1 cylinder. The crank pulley then has a groove that lines up with the arrow on the oil pump housing. I didn't realize that was a mark to use. Plus, when you rotate the crank to line up the mark, you are no longer at TDC. That had me confused. Well, along with a bunch of other stuff! When your crank mark is lined up with the oil pump housing mark, you're 60 degrees past TDC. Seems like every other engine you stay at TDC. The reason they designed it to be 60 degrees past TDC is because you have to rotate the cams just a little to get the sprocket bolt holes to line up and that provides the valve clearance needed.
So here's what I plan on doing. I'm going to get the #1 at TDC. Remove both cams. Rotate the engine to align the mark on the crank with the arrow on the oil pump housing. You're only rotating the crank about another inch. That's when I install my cams and align the marks with 12 chain pins in between and position them at 12:00 to the angle of the head. Line up the colored links on the primary chain to the marks on the sprockets. Right bank mark lines up with one colored link, left bank in between two colored links, and the arrow on the oil pump housing with one colored link. I then use a 3/8 ratchet, slightly rotate the cams, and line up the bolt holes. Install the tensioner and activate it by gently prying it with a screwdriver. Rotate the engine by hand to take the slack out of the chain. After that my timing should be good to go.
You know, there really isn't much info out there about setting the timing on the Chrysler 2.7 after your timing is off without the primary chain being installed. I had my primary on but that was pretty much where I was at with this. Most of the info just says to line up the colored links on the primary chain. Well, if you completely throw your timing off you're kind of past that point. Luckily it was just by a link so I don't think there is any valve damage. With my luck there is though. There aren't any marks on the piston tops so I think I'm okay.
Thanks again DS.
By the way, I am going to replace that tensioner block. It does provide tension it just doesn't have the spring action needed to easily install the cams. It's definitely faulty though.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 3, 2014, 7:51 AM
Post #5 of 7
(6748 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Stratus 2.7
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You do realize the tensioner is hydraulic and operated by oil pressure, right?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 3, 2014, 10:41 AM
Post #6 of 7
(6739 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Stratus 2.7
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If the tensioner is bad, definitely replace it. The stop block is aftermarket and prevents the chain from flying off the sprockets if the tensioner fails or during start up when there is lack of oil pressure.
I highly suggest you install the additional stop block. It will save you a ton of heart ache.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Feb 3, 2014, 11:26 AM
Post #7 of 7
(6736 views)
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Re: 2002 Dodge Stratus 2.7
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You do realize the tensioner is hydraulic and operated by oil pressure, right?
I read that in the alldata info you sent me. When you go to install it you push it down to and that relieves the tension. Once everything is install you pry on the arm tensioner, or whatever it's called, and then the tensioner pops back out.
Ds...I remember seeing something like that when I was reading online. I just talked to them and asked and they don't want to spend the $35 on it! They said they'll worry about it if and when it happens....geez....At first I thought you were talking about the secondary chain tensioner. It's kind of a block type thing. One of those was jamming up so I replaced it. I still wish they would've agreed to get a whole timing chain kit. I did make them replace the timing chain tensioner since it was filled with gooey oil/antifreeze. They said they needed a head gasket. All they got was the head gasket. They didn't wanna buy the head gasket kit and reused a lot of the old gaskets. I got the car and took the heads off before they brought over parts. That was a mistake. I don't know these people all that well. Normally I just work on family and close friend's cars. If you guys recommend replacing something, I tell them, and they agree. Not these people. I told them the water pump was bad. They wanted to see it. They said, "the shaft isn't that loose". Ha...it was wobbling around like crazy. I think that was the problem to begin with but I screwed up and didn't diagnose it first. I just assumed they took it to a shop and that's what they were told. I guess they have another car in a shop but have a bill of $1000 they have to pay before getting it out. They said the mechanic just kept adding parts to it. Oh yeah, but the parts were fine when they too the car in. Of course, they told me most of this after I already had things torn apart. It sat in negative degree weather for two months with almost all of the antifreeze in the engine oil. Found that out just the other day. No wonder it sat for 2 months. They couldn't find anyone to do it once they hear the story. I think that's why they didn't tell me squat. Like I told HT, I don't know how you guys can deal with crap like that on a daily basis. One of the big things I learned from HT on this one is to make sure I agree to certain terms before performing any work. I'm going to show them the old parts that I replaced so they know it was done and then have them sign something saying I'm not liable for anything down the road since they don't want to spend the money to do things right.
The timing chain is back on. It was kind of tricky getting the main chain on. I had to keep a little tension on the right cams while I lined up the bolt holes on the left cam sprocket so it wouldn't jump a link. An extra pair of hands would've helped but didn't wanna wait until this evening. Everything seems to be on its mark except the cam marks are no longer at 12:00 but I think I remember you guys saying that would happen. The right cam is at about 1:00 and the left at about 11:00. With the tension it seems like that's where they would fall into place.
Thanks for the help. I'll be sure to send them to your guy's shop if they need anymore work done! It'll probably be in a couple weeks once some of the old gaskets start leaking or their old timing chain breaks.
Time to go cut some firewood. Sure is cold though. And no, I don't wanna hear it.
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