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91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Oct 21, 2009, 1:42 PM
Post #1 of 23
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91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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1991 olds cutlass ciera. today it stalled twice. first time it stalled it would not re-fire. after letting it sit for awhile it re-fired. a short time later it stalled again but restarted right away. Any ideas. engine is a iron duke 2.5L straght 4 with over 170,000 miles.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 21, 2009, 3:30 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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All I can do is tell you how to diagnose the problem yourself.
All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be test during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
4) If all other tests are passed. then perform a complete compression test and record the results. All cylinders should be over 120lbs in most cases and all be within 10% of each other.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Oct 21, 2009, 4:48 PM
Post #3 of 23
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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well i don't have a fuel pressure gauge. all i know is it was running fine then it quite in a parking lot and would not re-start. after letting it sit for awhile it started. then shortly after almost out of the parking lot it stalls again but it re-started right away this time. it shook the first time. that's all i know as my mom was driving it i was at home. the car worked fine after that it got her home. will take it for a drive around the block tomorrow and see if it does it again.oil is good trans fluid is over full. don't know if this helps but sometimes when i put it in reverse sometimes it will shake a little like it does not have enough power.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 21, 2009, 5:08 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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All that information you have tells me nothing. It requires testing and diagnosis to determine the problem. If you are not able or not equipped, then your going to have to pay someone else to do it for you and it can only be done while the problem is present. This may not be convenient for you but these are the facts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Oct 21, 2009, 6:28 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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sense all that info tells you nothing then when the car quits for good then i will test it but right now i don't have the money for the tools or to pay someone to look at it and when i do find out what the problem is it will be a while before i can have a shop fix it.i don't have the $$$$$$$.i will take it for a test drive tomorrow and see if it does it. it rained hard the night before so it could have been a short sense when it rains the car doors fill with water between the door panels.
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Oct 22, 2009, 4:48 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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well took it for a drive and it stalled again in a shopping market parking lot. it seams it stalls when its in idle when your foot is off the gas. it started right back up though. it seams to idle weird so that could be the issue. it almost stalled a 2nd time today but it was getting ready to quit when i put my foot on the gas to move and the car like jerked for a second. took to 2 places. one place wants about $56 if i decide not to have it repaired and another wants $86 or so for a diagnostics fee and that does not go to the cost of the repair.im thinking that its not getting enough fuel or air or something when it idles so it stalls.
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Nov 3, 2009, 8:22 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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well it was a sensor. forgot which one but it was in the manifold. it kept reading that the outside temp was -3 which is why the car kept stalling. the shop also replaced a heater hose which was rusty $205 for the repair.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Nov 4, 2009, 6:05 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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'91 Olds; That would be the CTS (coolant temp sensor). This sensor tells the computer what temperature the engine is at and commands fuel delivery, accordingly. Since fuel injected engines don't have a 'choke' like the old carburetors did, the computer will see -3F and think you are in Fairbanks, AK in January. It will 'dump' fuel because a cold engine needs a lot of fuel. If it is actually 60 or 70 degrees out, it will cause a flooding condition. Very common problem. Sorry to hear that it took so much to find the problem. But, now, everything is good. Have a great week.
Loren
SW Washington
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Nov 5, 2009, 11:43 AM
Post #10 of 23
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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ok now that i switched back to regular editor. The sensor that was replaced was the MAT(manifold absolute temperature) is that the same thing or a different sensor. the car stalled again on wednesday and took awhile to re-start.
'91 Olds; That would be the CTS (coolant temp sensor). This sensor tells the computer what temperature the engine is at and commands fuel delivery, accordingly. Since fuel injected engines don't have a 'choke' like the old carburetors did, the computer will see -3F and think you are in Fairbanks, AK in January. It will 'dump' fuel because a cold engine needs a lot of fuel. If it is actually 60 or 70 degrees out, it will cause a flooding condition. Very common problem. Sorry to hear that it took so much to find the problem. But, now, everything is good. Have a great week.
(This post was edited by oldsmoblecutlassciera on Nov 5, 2009, 11:46 AM)
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Nov 5, 2009, 6:20 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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No, the Manifold air temp and Coolant temp sensors are different.
Loren
SW Washington
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Nov 5, 2009, 6:41 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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olds; You can spend a lot of money going at it this way. As HT explained, we need to know what is happening at the time the engine dies and won't restart. Do you have fuel pressure to the injectors? Spark to the plugs? Can't ever remember a MAT sensor causing a no start. Stay away from transmission shops for engine problems.
Loren
SW Washington
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Nov 11, 2009, 3:51 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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OK sense the car was still stalling took it back to the shop. there was nothing they could due unless i wanted to spend 500-1000 dollars. the gas tank is rusty along with the fuel lines. to replace the tank lines and pump around $500. they said the pressure was good but it kept going up and down. they said cylinder 2 was misfiring and cylinder 4 was misfiring when cold so they said the ignition coil could be failing. if it is the coil do you replace just the coil or both the coil and ignition module (close to $100 for both from autozone) can you replace fuel lines yourself or is it better to have a pro do it.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Nov 11, 2009, 4:52 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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>>so they said the ignition coil could be failing<< A faulty fuel pressure regulator can cause an eratic pressure reading. Poor engine vacuum can cause the regulator to get a poor vacuum signal which will affect the pressure. Geeez. You really need to take this to a professional auto repair shop to have it diagnosed. These guys have been 'throwing parts' at your car, at your expense, and you are no further ahead than when you started. I'd give them the option of fixing your car, at their expense, or you'll take it elsewhere to get it done right and send them the bill for the parts that they have already sold you that you didn't need. Of course, this will probably end up in small claims court, but, enough is enough. Now, to answer your fuel tank question. Fuel tanks, unless they are REALLY bad, can be cleaned and resealed internally. The fuel lines can be cleaned with denatured alchohol, unless the are REALLY bad. What part of the country do live? Rust area? I have seen fuel pumps rusted so badly that they fall apart when removed, but it is VERY rare, at least here on the west coast.
With that said, which is my PERSONAL opinion, no one is perfect. Once in a while, we'll get a symptom from a customer that we can't duplicate or find a specific reason that would cause the symptom. We will offer to replace what is our best educated guess, give the customer the old part, and if it doesn't correct the problem, we'll put the old part back on, give them a refund, and continue trying to get to the bottom of the problem. My wife thinks we're a non-profit organization.  Most of the time, I must admit, we get lucky.
Loren
SW Washington
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Nov 12, 2009, 12:35 AM
Post #15 of 23
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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sorry for the questions without solutions but i don't have access to the tools needed to do my own trouble shooting. The shop i took it to is used by AAA for towing so you would think there good. Im in michigan so michigan rust. i think this car was either under water for awhile or it was parked somewhere at sat for a while in the snow. the only time it stalls is on the road so i can't just get out tools and check the engine in the middle of the road. they did not charge for looking at it a 2nd time. When i get some money i will take the car somewhere else for a 2nd opinion. the problem is all the shops want to charge just to look it at. this place was $50 but midus is $80 and that does not go towards the repair. some history on the car. i got it off of craigslist. drove it home got within 1 block of the house the car quits. would not go in gear. turns out it was the TCS $300 for that then another $100 for a tune up. A while later the driver side main brake line failed while driving. i replaced that myself. had the muffler and entire exhaust system replaced including the exhaust manifold and the right front passenger side ball joint. 2 new front tires the horn and left turn signal fixed. and then the sensor which did not solve the staling problem. this car is a lemon but i can't afford a used one from a dealer right now. so im stuck getting this one repaired. i paid $400 for the car originally.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 13, 2009, 11:50 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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Quick read - sorry.
Comments: Rust is on outside of gas tank and lines not generally inside.
Rust belt issues: Here they put more road salt on the road then the snow we got! Egad - what a car killer!
That salt will get at electrical connections over time and wiring itself. Makes things a real challenge of course.
Fuel line replacement: If even worried about doing it right have it done. If your work vibrates or rubs in the wrong places it won't last and of course fuel is dangerous.
Old saying from Harvard University: See it done, do it then when you can teach it you have it! Said at commencement in 1948!
T
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Nov 17, 2009, 1:06 AM
Post #17 of 23
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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well it stalled again today. earlier she drove around no problems and later that night she drove it again no problem. both times not very far. we had to go back out shortly after cause i needed suger for cookies. coming home passed the driveway so put the car in reverse and then forward just a little ways up the drive way the engine quits will not start back up. we're halfway in the street. I put the flashers on. i tell mom to put the car in neutral and i will push it to the curb so at least its level. she gives the gas pedal a couple pumps and it starts. she said that's what she has to do to get it restart sometimes. so I'm thinking its a fuel problem. no i did not pull the plugs to see if there's spark. when your half way up your driveway and half way in the street your not thinking oh gee i need to play doctor. your thinking you need to get the car going again. will have to wait till after the hoilday's before i can take it in somewhere else. what does a rusty gas tank and lines have to do with a car stalling.
(This post was edited by oldsmoblecutlassciera on Nov 17, 2009, 1:10 AM)
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Nov 17, 2009, 6:46 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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>>cause i needed suger for cookies>>
What kind of cookies? I LIKE cookies! My mom used to make the world's best sugar cookies. Warm, with milk. Mmmm.
Now, to your problem. With a fuel injected car, when you depress the throttle, you are giving the engine more air. Not fuel. This could be an overfueling issue. Rust will plug the fuel filter. I like to empty the fuel in the filter into a glass container and let it settle to check for water and contaminants, such as rust. But, we're back to needing to know what is happening at the time the engine dies. Spark, or fuel?
Loren
SW Washington
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Nov 17, 2009, 11:57 PM
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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I know you all want me to check for spark or fuel when it stalls but just how do you expect me to do this in the middle of the road. if it happened in my driveway all the way up then i would check. not when its half way up the driveway and halfway in the street and in the middle of the night. if it quit for good and would not start no matter what then i would check cause it would be at my house and i could check. but not if it breaks down in the middle of the road. now could the Idle Air Control Valve cause this also sense it only wants to stall and low or idle speed. im going to replace both the fuel filter and the CTS sensor sense there both around $12 each from autozone.
P.S they were chocolate chip cookies.
(This post was edited by oldsmoblecutlassciera on Nov 18, 2009, 3:35 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 18, 2009, 4:58 AM
Post #21 of 23
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Re: 91 olds cutlass ceria stalled twice
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Gas pedal tricks should mean nothing to this car,
T
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oldsmoblecutlassciera
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Nov 23, 2009, 9:01 PM
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Ok took it to another shop and told them the problem. the guy is almost certain its the ignition modular. He called the other shop sense the other shop cleared the codes and never told me what they were. the other shop DID NOT RECORD THE CODES(They did not save them in the computer) so hes going to try and get the car to stall and hopefully it will give in a SES light(sense the other shop reset it) and a code so he can find out the problem.its still there right now.
(This post was edited by oldsmoblecutlassciera on Nov 23, 2009, 9:02 PM)
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