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99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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mxdad415
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Oct 3, 2014, 6:36 PM
Post #1 of 52
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99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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1. Rebuilt entire motor – long block through shop
2. Truck was apart for 2-plus years, spun main bearing but still ran when parked
3. Lined up timing by rolling over the motor and watching the intake and exhaust valves. Watched intake open then close, as it came around stopped on the TDC line. If I continued around the exhaust would of opened on the next stroke up, etc
4. Aligned the distributor rotor to point at the little #8 on the rim of the distributor or #1 plug wire. (I understand that I can not time this but this is what you do to get it close enough to run?)
5. New Dist cap, rotor, plug wires, plugs, crank sensor, cam sensor. All new internals in the motor.
Truck starts or tries to starts then dies right away. 1-1 ½ seconds. Does not cough, sputter or miss. Basically sounds just like it is going to start no problem, then just dies. I was curious about what the timing was doing so I put a timing light on it and had the wife try and start it. You could see that it started at 0 degrees and quickly advanced until it died. I went and bought a scan tool and you can read the timing degrees. I can watch it in the live mode start at 0 degrees and quickly advance until around 30-35 degrees when it dies and it will return to 0. This happens every time without fail.
1. Fuel pressure 55-58
2. I pulled the #1 plug and while it is not wet with fuel it is turning a little black.
3. The only devices that I am not positive if they are in the right spot are (2) little round ones that have a single wire (round) termination. I believe the knock sensors, (2) of them? The wiring leads me to believe that they want to live one on each side of the motor. Machine shop put plugs in all of the holes and didn’t put the sensors back where they were so I am guessing.
4. Does not have any codes that I can read with the code reader. No check engine light.
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Hammer Time
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Oct 3, 2014, 7:08 PM
Post #2 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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I don't think you understand how the distributor works on this engine. The timing absolutely cannot be changed in any way. The only thing turning the distributor does is throw everything out of synch. The primary ignition trigger is at a fixed time and the distributor has to be adjusted to match it exactly or it isn't going to run. You need to use a professional scan tool and adjust the cam offset to 0 to get the distributor in the right spot. Your fuel pressure is a bit low too. The absolute minimum pressure for this to run is 55 PSI.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 3, 2014, 7:09 PM)
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 8:18 AM
Post #4 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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Hammer Time - Haha, I absolutely agree I don't get how this distributor works. I did not try to turn the distributor, I have read your previous posts from back in 2012 read where people don't get that.
We will call it engine component setup (not timing) - I set everything to the best of my ability. Last night I did the only thing I could think of, took it all apart, made sure the marks on the crank and cam were both at 12 o'clock, (because machine shop did that) distributor installed (and bottomed out), rotor pointing at the little #8 on the rim. Going to put it all back together this morning. So you don't think I could get all of this close enough to at least make it start? Then I would have no problem taking it to a shop to set the cam offset.
Fuel pressure - When I crank it and it attempts to start the fuel pressure does come up a little or if I cycle the key a couple of time it gets closer to 58-60. It does not drop when attempting to start though.
I am really happy to see comments this morning, any and all help will be greatly appreciated. I know I could just take it to a shop and have them fix it but this is kinda how I get my mind off of work....
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 8:26 AM
Post #5 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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Discrete - Answer to your question, yes it is installed to the #8 on the rim, yes I did have to rotate the oil pump shaft to get it to drop in (that was fun).
OK - now the last part I have read and I think I just glossed over it before. I did install the distributor and had rotor pointing at say about 5 o'clock (if you stand in front of the engine and look down), then I fine tuned the line up by turning the distributor to line up with the #8? I have read somewhere that you line up the distributor too or some say it won't move? Well it does move and if I need to line the distributor up in up in a fixed location? The distributor doesn't move a whole lot because of the design of the wires coming out both sides, so I couldn't be off to far?
I really appreciate your guys help, hang in there with me.
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 8:31 AM
Post #6 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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Hammer -  Uh maybe I did turn the distributor to help fine tune the line up? I plead ignorance.....please help anyway if I wasn't supposed to do that?
Hope you guys have a sense of humor.....
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kev2
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Oct 4, 2014, 9:35 AM
Post #7 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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something I saw- both the cam and crank marks at 12oclock...
Anyway - did you do BASICS- the scanner will zero in the sync, they are must have tool today.
spark at several cylinders..
Is there injector pulse- maybe look for wet plugs...
notice the marks 1&2 but confirm #3 is at the 5 oclock -
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 10:05 AM
Post #8 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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Kev -
How I lined everything up - #1TDC, crank gear has white dot=at 12 o'clock, cam gear has white dot=12 o'clock, rotor pointing at little #8 on rim, trying to research if the body of the distributor needs to line up with something specific?
"notice the marks 1&2 but confirm #3 is at the 5 oclock" - was there supposed to be a picture? I am a little lost there
**I am getting ready to go back out to the shop. I have checked spark on #1 but didn't check the rest. Again, I only check #1 but it was dry and a little black, will check the rest.
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Hammer Time
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Oct 4, 2014, 10:28 AM
Post #9 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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One thing you have to remember here is that the wire position on the outside of the cap does not match the contact in the same position on the inside so it's deceiving to know if you are pointing at #1 or not.
Here are the installation instructions.
Let's see if this comes out right
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Hammer Time
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Oct 4, 2014, 10:34 AM
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That came out too small. I will split it into 2 parts and try that.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
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Oct 4, 2014, 11:26 AM
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 12:28 PM
Post #12 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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Hammer - man that is great, not exactly how I did it so I will pull it out and check it. Wife just ran to parts store to get water pump gaskets for me, almost back together from checking crank/cam alignment. (made sure I wasn't messing up there because the machine shop did that)
**I really appreciate your guys help, first time I have ever tried this online chat room thing. I will keep you posted but I am slow, give me a couple hours. I will hold off on the cocktails for a while, that should speed things up.....hahaha**
Discrete - gots jokes.....Mr. Magoo.....haven't seen that in a while, I might be resembling that lately. Noticed I always have to have a flashlight handy when working on a car anymore.
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 1:57 PM
Post #13 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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OK - leaving a message before I go out and finish reassembling the front of the engine. Pulled the distributor out and lined up the marks, dimple on the gear/paint mark on shaft. Rotor pointed roughly at #2 and marked it with silver marker. For reference I also marked the plastic #8 bump in the housing of the distributor (for after I got it installed/reference) I held the distributor and marked where the outside shaft was in relation to the hold down bolt. (to make sure I didn't rotate the body while inserting) Inserted distributor in according to the directions, thought it was lined up correct before but it did not bottom. (oil pump shaft not lined up, tells me I didn't have it in correctly before? might of moved? who knows) Adjusted the oil pump shaft while standing on my head, upside down and backwards, with a flash light (thanks for the Magoo reference) Installed the distributor with the dimple on the gear, white paint mark, rotor pointing at silver marker on housing (roughly #2), the mark I put on the body with the hold down bolt, all went in straight.
Here is the catch, the rotor, with the distributor fully bottomed out, after rotating as the gear meshed and all other marks lined up, points just past the little #8 on the housing of the distributor. It is about 1/8th to 3/16th past the mark if rotating clockwise. (I tried to upload a picture, can't figure it out. Guess I am about as good with the computer as I am with a 99 suburban, hahaha)
**Here is the question, move distributor to line up with the #8 in the housing or leave it where it is?**
Thanks guys, give me a couple hours and I will have it back together and ready to fire, hopefully someone can answer my "move distributor" question.
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 2:13 PM
Post #15 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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Hammer - I was wondering about that, seemed backwards to me too but that is what this stupid Hayes manual said? I will check with my compression gauge like you suggested.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Oct 4, 2014, 4:28 PM
Post #17 of 52
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HT - Can barely see anyway but quick look up show only gas engine was an R code V8. No V6 listed at all. The diagrams show a 6.
If somehow I missed something I do know they exported the R code engine later years but not for sale to the US market - I think,
T
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Hammer Time
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Oct 4, 2014, 4:32 PM
Post #18 of 52
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Everybody knows this is a V8. They use the same distributor, just different marks
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Tom Greenleaf
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Oct 4, 2014, 5:16 PM
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Just asking if it mattered. TMK and by math, looks and so on a 4.3L is exactly a 5.7 w two cylinder cut off. Never ever went for a rebuilt engine for anything as always could find whole good engines fresh out of known vehicles. No more on that either now as the place dumps everything for metal weight in no time + just takes certain popular parts that are good off for open WWW inventory.
This exact block only two back to forever ever failed badly. One plain abused beyond human belief and so was the whole vehicle and one unseen by me broke a starter off of block taking block chunk with it!
Only hear of ones that cracked wide open from freezing with plain water in them and chances are whole vehicle junked - any make of anything,
T
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 5:31 PM
Post #20 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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Hammer - I had my son come over and help me once I got it back together, he bumped it over while I watched the compression gauge and timing mark. Everything lined up ok with the mark, compression showing and distributor pointing roughly at the #8 mark on the distributor. In the manual it says to line up the (2) dots like you said but made note that this would be with the #6 at TDC. Then you should rotate 180 degrees to get #1 TDC. They even had a picture?
Could you take a minute and look at the picture I posted and comments about where the distributor ended up when I installed per those directions you gave me? I am headed back out and going to put the cap, coil and everything back together now. Just wanted to know if I should leave the distributor where it shows in the picture or rotate slightly so it lines up with the #8 mark on the distributor?
Don't give up on me yet, hahaha. I almost have it back together, to try and start it again.
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 5:33 PM
Post #21 of 52
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Re: 99 suburban-rebuilt motor-won't start
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Discrete - You give up on me?
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Hammer Time
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Oct 4, 2014, 5:35 PM
Post #22 of 52
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Just look inside the distributor cap. Find #1 wire and look inside the and follow the route that terminal takes to locate the #1 contact on the inside. These flat caps don't go straight in.
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 6:51 PM
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Got it all back together, still cranks, starts to take off for just a little bit then dies. Never really gets running...1 second to 1 1/2 seconds, just long enough to take off from the starter then dies. Doesn't back fire or sputter, just dies. I took some comments a little earlier and was checking spark and looking at spark plugs. All of the spark plugs I pulled (6 of 8 the others are a pain) were black but not wet after trying to start about a dozen or so times. When I put a plug into the plug wire and cranked it was a white spark? Isn't the spark normally more blue ish? It really doesn't run long enough to see if it is consistent. I called auto parts store that is closest to me and they said they could test the ignition module and a new coil was only like $30-$40 dollars.
Any help would be great, I appreciate everything you guys have given me so far. I flat ran out of things I know how to check but always want to learn....
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Hammer Time
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Oct 4, 2014, 7:28 PM
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Have you got a security light on or flashing when trying to start it?
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mxdad415
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Oct 4, 2014, 7:38 PM
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OK, was looking at that one earlier too, it comes on solid when I turn the key on, then goes away. When I try to start and it dies the security light flashes several times then goes out. I have read the whole turn on wait 10 minutes then turn on again and repeat X3 times? Didn't seem to work, I could try it again though, do you have a specific instruction for that routine? If it does not start because of the security thing, does it cut out the fuel pump or ignition?
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1989 toyota pickup 3.0 crank no start
Please Help - Knock sound & engine fail
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