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HELP! Female need mechanics oppinions!
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pambam
New User
Jun 11, 2013, 7:37 AM
Post #1 of 17
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HELP! Female need mechanics oppinions!
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I had a Honda Odyssey which had gone into repair at a large franchise repair shop.After putting aprox $2K on their credit card for repairs I had asked several times to check the oil and fluid levels. and upon picking up the car, my Husband and I checked again and inquired if the oil had been checked and the mechanic pointed to their 32 point inspection on the bill and said it was taken care of. A week later I was driving on the interstate and the engine seized. I checked under the hood and their was not a drop of oil in the vehicle. Had it towed back to the mechanic 90 miles away at 2 am and they told me the engine seized because the timing belt broke. I had the car towed again to my usual mechanic and his opinion was that the engine seized because it had no oil in it and when it seized that caused the timing belt to break. I would like to hear the opinions of other mechanics as I am disputing this with the company who did the work and asking for an inspection. They said they had spoken to their higher ups and were told that their was no point because the timeing belt broke. I have insisted that they hire an independent inspector as I belive that my mechanic is correct.....the belt broke because the engine seized due to the fact their was not a drop of oil in the car. I am an adoptive Mom with 6 kids with disibilities. We are a one income family who just had to purchase another vehicle, still have the credit card bill to pay on a car with a blown engine and the Honda had also had a rebuilt engine put into it about a year ago. Your oppinions would be appreciated.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 11, 2013, 7:59 AM
Post #2 of 17
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Re: HELP! Female need mechanics oppinions!
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Sorry for your troubles. Up front just know that male/female has nothing to do with being a mechanic.
We (speaking for others and shouldn't) are not arbitrators for you or exactly what happened. If that mechanic is willing to support you in writing and perhaps in person if this goes legal you have a shot at recovering costs.
In defense of this site none of us were there or looked at anything in person so anything said is just useless speculation.
Remember that we don't know you either or truth of what you claim.
OK: If this follows any norms the car wouldn't have gone 90 miles without oil. Timing belt -oil level ----- does one take out the other? Not convinced but strange things happen.
It is up to YOU to check that maintenance is done on schedule by miles and time. If it did somehow lose it's oil with no warnings (dash lights for example) that would be odd to me.
These things are messy at best. If your current mechanic is unwilling as the one who made the declaration of what happened you need that person or my guess is you'll just waste time.
Whatever the "large franchise" was if you keep at them just might help you without a huge fuss if approached the right way.
Sorry it all happened. No joy in things like that,
Tom
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pambam
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Jun 11, 2013, 9:07 AM
Post #3 of 17
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Re: HELP! Female need mechanics oppinions!
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Thanks Tom,
Appreciate the response. You are right! As an ole broad who believes in and fought for "woman's lib" in the 60's I used a poor analogy for saying, "I have limited knowlege about car engines." I guess because you find few woman mechanics.....I just wasn't thinking as I give a great big KUDOS to those female mechanics and wish I were one. Sorry as that was a big fat politically incorrect faux pas!
And you are right....you do not know me so I can tell you over the internet that I am a person who strongly believes in honesty and integrity and simply want to be treated fairly but it still remains that you don't know me. However, as far as my mechanic goes....he is a small independant mechanic in a family run business whom had always been fair and honest. I had gone to "the other place" because I was in a spot and didn't have the cash in hand to afford my repair bill and had a credit card for this large franchise that I had used in the past to buy tires. I feel better about the small family owned businesses that having to deal with the large corporate owned franchises that don't generally see you as a person.
However, I did not have any warning lights....the oil light was not on, the car wasn't running badly, no clattering valves. The car had no oil leaks and was not burning oil. Was on my way back from a great relaxing day and evening of fishing with 2 of my Sons when the car jerked a few times and the engine cut out in the middle of the Interstate. I pulled of to the side of the road and opened the hood as a knee-jerk reaction and noticed the things a layman would notice....that the engine was not running hot and I checked the oil, and there was none. Looked under the car to see if anything was leaking, saw nothing, not even water, and called AAA for a tow truck.
I am not sue happy, I take responsibility if things are my fault, and simply expect others do do the same. My car had been taken to this company for 3 different issues that I wanted to take care of as I keep up maintanance on the vehicle. I had asked several times about the oil as I thought it may be due for an oil change. I asked again upon picking up the vehicle. The Gentleman admits that he told us it was taken care of as stated on the receipt. Obviously it wasn't so I had approached them about it in a nice and businesslike manner. ( I actually thought these guys were pretty nice and wanted to work this out ammicably) Was willing to take 50% of the blame even though I felt they were at fault. Then the corporate BS kicks in and I have my back to a wall. Tom, I just want to be treated fairly which is why I asked for opinions from you guys. You are objective and don't know myself or the other party. I am looking for simply an objective oppinion as I also want to be fair to the mechanics. Thanks again for your time.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 11, 2013, 9:56 AM
Post #4 of 17
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Re: HELP! Female need mechanics oppinions!
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I just dunno what really happened to your car. If you look at that multi-point check list bet a timing belt isn't on that list as and now I don't know you can't know without taking things apart how good one is OR unless you keep a log or a regular shop sometimes will, send you reminders for services that should be due.
Then there's the totally 'OUT" there things like some road debris or who knows got in the wrong place and all went to h3ll in a nanosecond??
I'm still at odds with how both oil was said to be empty AND timing belt broke. One can go without the other all the time. Either can kill an engine! Good grief new parts fail too. It stinks!
Do you know how your mechanic knew there was no oil and you said no evidence of leaking? Checking by an ordinary dipstick most will be what I'll call "off the stick" just a quart and a half low, generally that wouldn't blow an engine in most vehicles plus there was no warnings either lights or sounds you said were not apparent.
So far just reading between the lines I think the timing belt just plain broke suddenly and anything else was after that but can't prove diddle. Most vehicles with rubber timing belts will suggest replacement at about 60,000 miles or so many years - both count. Some engines don't self destruct if one breaks, some do and without looking it up I think this one internally crashes and does cause damage that could vary from just an expensive fix or wreck way too much such that another engine is the better choice.
The mega chain places do not have to always be bad. Each mechanic is their own for the most part and if that's where the work is then so be it.
I know plenty of well qualified and total idiots out there in about any biz or trade.
The male or female PC thing is just old. Long retired now but my last ASE certifications there were perhaps 10% females, two owned a shop! Don't worry about the small stuff like that.
Again - what YOUR mechanic found is IMO the only thing that will help you now. He (think you said that) may not want the grief about going legal at all.
For now be glad it wasn't something where people got hurt first and pragmatic about if you can recover anything at all,
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 11, 2013, 10:29 AM
Post #5 of 17
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Those chains have insurance coverage for that kind of stuff. Tell them you want an insurance claim filed and let the insurance company work it out. If they refuse, call their corporate office and tell them the same thing.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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pambam
New User
Jun 11, 2013, 11:36 AM
Post #6 of 17
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That is the action I think we are trying to take as we had asked them to file a claim. They do not want to, as they say, because the timing belt made the engine seize. Here is where the problem lies! We disagree and say they are speculating and that we belive the engine seized because their was no oil in the car and it is the opinion of our other mechanic that after looking at the car that the timing belt went because the engine seized. That is why we asked for an independent inspector. Oddly enough, when we had the car towed to them, they looked at it and wrote down on the paperwork, "no oil" as the reason for the engine seizing! Lol! They even admitted that they had told me that it was taken care of in their 32 point inspection! Now they are backpeddeling saying that the engine seized because the timing belt broke. I had just paid off their credit card bill for new tires and a new battery plus labor (aprox a grand in March) And then had to run the card up again another $1300. it wouldn't hurt so much. But now I have dumped a fortune into new parts in a car that doesn't run while I continue to pay their cc bill.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 11, 2013, 12:54 PM
Post #7 of 17
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Stop dealing at the local level and contact their corporate office and demand the insurance company's name and then you can contact them yourself if they won't.
The decision of fault belongs to the insurance company, not the idiot that works at the store.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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pambam
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Jun 11, 2013, 12:56 PM
Post #8 of 17
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Re: HELP! Female need mechanics oppinions!
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Thanks for the advice! I will take it!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 11, 2013, 1:09 PM
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Still watching pambam of course. Hammer is right and that's worked on other insurance things. Skip the place and hit at the company. Here, with plain auto bullcrap like someone has damaged me I go right to their insurance if needed. Nicer if you never have to at all.
No doubt the place doesn't want a claim if it comes to that so not likely to want to help you, meaning the exact place it was checked out. It's a game that isn't any fun for anyone.
So far you did say you have a couple hands on mechanics saying it's an oil issue so that's on your side,
T
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toolman0007
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Jun 18, 2013, 5:26 PM
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a conversation with a friend the other day, something about an interference engine depending on momentum when a timing belt breaks things between the valves and pistons get all out of whack. and it's possible for valves to get bent or even put a hole in a piston. didn't think about it much. but my though is valves only open so far and are never at risk of such a thing.
what your take on this Hammer
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 18, 2013, 5:32 PM
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Completely wrong.
Broken timing belts bend valves all the time. Some engine are built with sufficient clearance, most are not.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 18, 2013, 5:51 PM
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On an engineering stand point having the valves closer to the pistons reduces weight of the cylinder head(s) plus also saves them money on materials. You also get higher compression ratios out of them. Manufactures are always trying to find ways to squeeze as much weight off these vehicles as feasible to meet CAFE standards.
There are some DOHC motors with 4 valves per cylinder that might not have piston to valve interference, but valve to valve interference. Chrysler 2.4L B engine is one of them.
I have only seen one interference pop a belt and not bend valves as of yet. How that happened was pure luck of the camshaft being in the right position at the right time.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 18, 2013, 6:04 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 19, 2013, 1:43 AM
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There were "interference" engines long before much attention to anything except adequate or lots of power. List is incomplete. Small block Mopar V8s (270, 318,340 + 360 CID blocks) were some, all chains not belts and don't recall a one destroying the engine or valves without a history of plain wild abuse also,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 19, 2013, 3:02 AM
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That's probably because as a rule, chains don't suddenly break at highway speeds and belts do. Most of those engine aren't overhead cam engines anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 19, 2013, 3:02 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 19, 2013, 4:13 AM
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Not some but all I ever knew of jumped time vs break or fall off. Of those they just ran fine (told) then just didn't start after a harmless shut down - easy diagnosis of no compression just by the sound without any more checking really. Voila, once there you'd think it wouldn't have made it for ages before.
These power plants of yesteryear are still out there new now for non automotive use lest we forget all the things too important to rely on a rubber belt for something so critical.
Back to OP if still watching. IMO this is a reason with designs with both interference and a rubber belt driven valve train can be so easily blamed for wild engine destruction with little to no notice. Hard to be sure what came first?
T
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Hammer Time
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Jun 19, 2013, 4:18 AM
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The big factor where things really started to change is overhead cam vs overhead valve engine designs. That's when interference started to become a big issue.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 19, 2013, 4:41 AM
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Back to top post and the subject...........
I had a Honda Odyssey which had gone into repair at a large franchise repair shop.After putting aprox $2K on their credit card for repairs I had asked several times to check the oil and fluid levels. and upon picking up the car, my Husband and I checked again and inquired if the oil had been checked and the mechanic pointed to their 32 point inspection on the bill and said it was taken care of. A week later I was driving on the interstate and the engine seized. I checked under the hood and their was not a drop of oil in the vehicle. Had it towed back to the mechanic 90 miles away at 2 am and they told me the engine seized because the timing belt broke. I had the car towed again to my usual mechanic and his opinion was that the engine seized because it had no oil in it and when it seized that caused the timing belt to break. I would like to hear the opinions of other mechanics as I am disputing this with the company who did the work and asking for an inspection. They said they had spoken to their higher ups and were told that their was no point because the timeing belt broke. I have insisted that they hire an independent inspector as I belive that my mechanic is correct.....the belt broke because the engine seized due to the fact their was not a drop of oil in the car. I am an adoptive Mom with 6 kids with disibilities. We are a one income family who just had to purchase another vehicle, still have the credit card bill to pay on a car with a blown engine and the Honda had also had a rebuilt engine put into it about a year ago. Your oppinions would be appreciated.
___________________________________
Poor pambam putting up with this still perhaps. If this was all redone as a "rebuilt" engine about a year before AND was checked 32 points of what we'll never know but seems a non associated mechanic declared the source of yet another wild engine failure we need Columbo to do the investigation!
That second hands on tech hold all those clues, we don't, T
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