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did my truck jump time????
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Mr.scotty
Enthusiast
Jun 2, 2011, 10:06 PM
Post #26 of 48
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Re: did my truck jump time????
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I think once you get your timing rite it will be fine.
Just keep keeping us posted please.
Hope it goes well for you.
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Your only as good as your tools!
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richardlice
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Jun 3, 2011, 9:03 AM
Post #27 of 48
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Re: did my truck jump time????
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started over again now is just like the picture, still no start, no backfire, i think i lost spark somewhere, not getting fire at the plugs. what can i do next?
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richardlice
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Jun 3, 2011, 9:06 AM
Post #28 of 48
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Re: did my truck jump time????
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did just as you said still no start, i dont think im getting spark somewhere what should i check
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richardlice
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Jun 3, 2011, 9:10 AM
Post #29 of 48
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Re: did my truck jump time????
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redid the whole thing the dist is in just like the picture, still no start, could it be the pid cam offset
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Mr.scotty
Enthusiast
Jun 3, 2011, 7:24 PM
Post #30 of 48
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Re: did my truck jump time????
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So no spark at all?
Check and see if your getting power to your coil.
And You do have all the wires hooked up right?
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Your only as good as your tools!
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richardlice
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Jun 3, 2011, 9:01 PM
Post #31 of 48
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yep all wires are hooked up and i have power at the coil none after the coil, ie. i took coil wire off and put close to block i should see a spark right, but i have nothing,
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Mr.scotty
Enthusiast
Jun 3, 2011, 10:07 PM
Post #32 of 48
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I'd test the Crank sensor too.
heres how:
This article will help you to troubleshoot and diagnose a BAD Crankshaft Position Sensor on your 4.3L, 5.0L and 5.7L GM Pick Up or SUV.
Since the 3-wire Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor can not be tested by a Multimeter resistance test (Ohms), I’ve written this article to show you how to do it with just a Multimeter in Volts DC mode. This is a very accurate and effective test and will help you to know if it’s good or BAD.
Since this article covers quite a few GM Years, Makes and Models, take a look at the ‘Applies To:’ box on the right and scroll with the ‘Next > >’ button to see all of the applications. Also, the info in this article is geared towards diagnosing and troubleshooting a Cranks but Does Not Start Condition - No Start No Spark Condition.
Tools You’ll Need: - Multimeter.
- Jack
- Jack Stands
- 1/2 inch Ratchet Wrench
 CKP TEST 1: Crank Signal  Enlarge Close
The Crankshaft Position Sensor is located on the bottom (passenger-side) of the Engine Timing Chain Cover. The very first thing you’ll need to do is to verify if the Crank Sensor is producing a Crank Signal.
This is a very easy, but accurate test, that will verify the performance of the CKP Sensor. Now, this accuracy is accomplished by measuring the CKP Signal with a Multimeter and manually turning the engine by hand, since cranking the engine with the Starter Motor would not accomplish the same result (unless you use an oscilloscope).
Before starting the actual ‘hands on’ testing of the CKP Sensor, please read the entire article first. - 1
To gain easy access to the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor, you’ll need to raise the front of the Pick Up or SUV and then lower it on Jack Stands. This will also allow you to comfortably crank the engine manually using a 1/2 ratchet and the appropriate socket. - 2
Disable the Fuel System. One way of doing this by disconnecting the Spider Fuel Injector connector. This important! By disabling the Fuel Injectors, you’ll keep the vehicle from possibly starting as you perform the test. - 3
Disable the Ignition System. You can easily accomplish this by simply disconnecting the Ignition Coil or the Ignition Control Module. This will prevent the Ignition System from creating Spark. - 4
Since this is a dynamic test of the Crank Sensor, it has to remain connected to its connector as you perform the test. So, pierce the wire labeled with the letter C in the photo in the image viewer (with an appropriate tool, like a wire-piercing probe) and connect the RED Multimeter lead to this tool.
The wire (circuit) labeled with the letter C is the one that transmits the CKP Sensor Signal to the PCM. - 5
Connect the BLACK lead of the Multimeter to a good ground point on the engine, preferably on the Battery Negative Terminal. If you decide to connect the BLACK Multimeter lead to a Ground point somewhere underneath the vehicle, make sure it’s a nice clean and rust-free spot. - 6
If you haven’t done so already, turn your Multimeter On and set it in Volts DC mode. Steps are continued in the post.
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Your only as good as your tools!
(This post was edited by Mr.scotty on Jun 3, 2011, 10:08 PM)
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Mr.scotty
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Jun 3, 2011, 10:10 PM
Post #33 of 48
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continued from previous page - 7
As mentioned at the beginning of the article, you’ll need to manually turn the engine by hand. So, using a 1/2 inch ratchet and a socket, turn the Crank Pulley clock-wise. - 8
If the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor is working like it should, your Multimeter will register and ON/OFF Voltage Signal. ON is when the Multimeter displays 5 Volts DC and OFF is when it displays 0 Volts (.1 Volt equals 0 Volts).
OK, the following CASES will help you interpret the results of the CKP Signal Test on your 4.3L, 5.0L and 5.7L GM equipped Pick Up or SUV:
CASE 1 The Multimeter registered the ON/OFF 5 Volts Crank Signal as you turned the engine with the ratchet: This is good, since it means that the Crank Sensor is working properly and creating the Signal.
No further testing is required since the other two tests in this article check that the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor is getting Power and Ground. Since your test confirms that the CKP Sensor is creating a Signal, then it also proves that it’s getting Power and Ground.
CASE 2 The Multimeter DID NOT register the ON/OFF 5 Volts Crank Signal as you turned the engine with the ratchet: This test result usually confirms that the Crank Sensor is BAD and needs to be replaced. About 90% of the time this is hitting the nail on the head, but I recommend that you check that the Sensor is also getting Power and Ground too.
By testing and confirming that the CKP Sensor is getting Power and Ground, you’ll be able to decisively confirm it is BAD or that maybe another issue exists, CKP TEST 2: Power Circuit Enlarge Close
Like any other electrical device, the Crankshaft Position Sensor on your 4.3L, 5.0L and 5.7L equipped GM vehicle needs power to function. This power is in the form of 12 Volts DC that are instantly made available to the Crank Sensor as soon as you turn the key to the On Position.
This test will help you to confirm that ‘YES, the Sensor is getting power’ or ‘NO, it’s not getting Power’. As in the previous test, you’ll be using your Multimeter to verify this Voltage Signal. - 1
Pierce the wire labeled with the letter A in the photo with a Wire-Piercing Probe. Now connect the RED Multimeter lead to this Wire-Piercing Probe. - 2
Connect the BLACK lead of the Multimeter to a clean and rust-free Ground spot on the frame or engine. - 3
When everything is set up, turn On you Multimeter and place it in Volts DC mode and have your helper turn the Key to the On position. No need to crank the engine for this test. - 4
Your Multimeter should and will register 12 Volts, if everything is OK with this circuit.
Now, let’s take a look at what those Voltage readings (or lack of) mean:
CASE 1 12 Volts registered on the Multimeter when the Ignition was turned On, this Multimeter result confirms that the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor is getting power.
The next test is to check that the CKP Sensor has a good path to Ground. So.
CASE 2 12 Volts DID NOT register when the Ignition was turned On,: This result indicates that the Ignition Module is not supplying power to the Crank Sensor.
This result exonerates the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor as the cause of the Cranks but Does Not Start Condition you’re trying to solve, since without these 12 Volts, the Crank Sensor can not create a Signal.
Power comes from the ECM fuse in the Instrument Panel Fuse Box. Check to see if the fuse is blown.
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Your only as good as your tools!
(This post was edited by Mr.scotty on Jun 3, 2011, 10:27 PM)
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Mr.scotty
Enthusiast
Jun 3, 2011, 10:20 PM
Post #34 of 48
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Re: did my truck jump time????
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Heres the coil test too:
This is one of the easiest GM Ignition Control Modules to test. This article will take you step by step through the whole process of diagnosing and troubleshooting a BAD Ignition Control Module and Ignition Coil.
The Ignition Control Module (ICM) and Ignition Coil tests in this article assume that your vehicle is Cranking but NOT STARTING due to a NO SPARK Condition. If you’re GM car or truck starts and runs, this article will not help you. Now, if you need to test a Misfire Condition, or test the Spark Plug Wires, or Distributor Cap on this type of GM Ignition System, click here: Symptoms of a BAD Ignition Module and Ignition Coil
Your GM car or truck will Crank but NOT START. Now this is not an absolute truth since sometimes these components can fail intermittently. In this scenario, your vehicle will Start and run most of the time, but every now and then it won’t. If this is the case, you’ll have to wait till the car or truck does not Start to use the tests in this article. What tools do I need?
You don’t need a whole lot of stuff, heck... you don’t even need a Scan Tool (tho’ a Scan Tool is important to have, but not for this article)! Here is what you’re gonna’ need to effectively use the information in this article: - A Multimeter
- A Test Light.
- A helper to crank the engine.
As you can see/read... these are just basic tools, nothing fancy, extravagant or EXPENSIVE. Basic Operating Theory
Here is a little background information to help you diagnose the Ignition Control Module (ICM) or the Ignition Coil. In a nutshell, when your turn the key and start cranking the engine: - Power in the form of 12 volts flows into the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor, the Ignition Control Module (ICM), the Ignition Coil.. among several things and...
- The Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor starts to create its Crank Signal, which it sends to the PCM.
- The Crankshaft Position Sensor is a Hall Effect type sensor and produces a digital (On/Off) signal that can be seen with an LED or an oscilloscope. On an oscilloscope, it produces a digital square waveform.
- The PCM, upon receiving the Crank Signal (along with other Sensor input Signals) start to do its little song and dance and sends the Ignition Control Module (ICM) a Signal called the IC Signal (IC=Ignition Control).
- With this IC Signal, the Module starts to activate the Ignition Coil to start sparking with a Switching Signal.
- As you’re probably already aware, the Switching Signal is just a term that describes the switching ‘on and off’ of the Primary Current’s path to ground (the Primary Current refers to the 12 volts supplied to the Ignition Coil).
If everything is working properly, the engine will start. Now, the important thing to know is that the PCM controls the creation of Spark from the get-go (crank up) and at all engine speeds thru’ the Ignition Control Module (ICM). The really cool thing about this type of Ignition System is that all of these Signals (IC Signal and the Switching Signal) can be tested easily with some very simple tools. Ignition Control Module (ICM) Circuit Descriptions  HTML_CAPTION  HTML_CAPTION 1/ 2 Previous image Enlarge Close Next image
The Ignition Control Module (ICM) has 4 wires coming out of it. Below are the descriptions of what each circuit does. Each circuit is identified by a letter, and this is the same letter that you will find on the Ignition Module’s connector. - Circuit labeled A -Pink Wire:
- Power (12 V) Circuit.
- Circuit labeled B -White Wire:
- Ignition Control (IC) Signal.
- Circuit labeled C -Black with White stripe Wire:
- Engine Ground Circuit.
- Circuit labeled D -White with Black stripe Wire:
- Switching Signal Circuit.
Ignition Coil Circuit Descriptions  HTML_CAPTION - HTML_CAPTION
1/ 2 Previous image Enlarge Close Next image
The Ignition Coil on your car or truck may have or may not have 3 wires coming out of it. Whether it does or doesn’t doesn’t matter... the info in this test article still applies. Below are the descriptions of what each circuit does. Each circuit is identified by a letter, and this is the same letter that you will find on the Ignition Coil’s connector. - Circuit labeled A -Pink Wire:
- Power (12 V) Circuit.
- Circuit labeled B -White Wire:
- Tach Signal for the Tachometer in the Instrument Cluster if equipped.
- Circuit labeled C -White with Black stripe Wire:
- Switching Signal Circuit. This wire (circuit)
- comes from the Ignition Module.
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Your only as good as your tools!
(This post was edited by Mr.scotty on Jun 3, 2011, 10:22 PM)
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Mr.scotty
Enthusiast
Jun 3, 2011, 10:24 PM
Post #35 of 48
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Part 2 of coil test.
TEST 1: Testing the Power (12 Volts) Circuit  HTML_CAPTION - HTML_CAPTION
1/ 2 Previous image Enlarge Close Next image
The first order of business,in diagnosing the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and Ignition Coil, is to verify that both are getting juice (10 to 12 Volts). Without this voltage, the Ignition System is not gonna’ function. Both, the Ignition Module and Ignition Coil get power (10 to 12 volts) from the same circuit, so by testing one component you’re also testing the other.
IMPORTANT: It’s critical to start here at TEST 1 and then go to the next indicated test(s) to successfully use this info and to diagnose your GM ICM or Ignition Coil. OK, the following test steps assume that you’re testing this Circuit with the Ignition Control Module (ICM) connected to its connector and that you’re using a Multimeter, so: - Put the multimeter in VOLTS DC mode
- It's not necessary to disconnect the Ignition Control Module (ICM). You'll probe the circuit identified with the letter A of the Ignition Control Module Connector .
- With the RED multimeter test lead and a suitable tool, probe the circuit identified with the PINK wire of the Connector.
- With the BLACK lead of the multimeter probe the BATT (-) NEGATIVE terminal.
- Turn Key On with the Engine Off.
If you got 10 to 12 volts, this result let’s you know that the fuse that feeds this circuit with voltage is OK. The next step is to test the Ground Circuit.
If you DID NOT get 10 to 12 volts, recheck all of your connections and retest. If you still do not get the appropriate voltage, then the fuse or relay that feeds this circuit is BAD. With this result you have eliminated the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and Ignition Coil as the source of the NO SPARK, NO START Condition. Repairing the cause of this missing voltage should make the vehicle start. TEST 2: Testing the Ground Circuit  HTML_CAPTION - HTML_CAPTION
1/ 2 Previous image Enlarge Close Next image
Testing the Ground Circuit is as easy as testing for the juice (in TEST 1). You can use a Multimeter or a Test Light. The following test steps assume that you’re using a Multimeter and that you are testing the Ground Circuit with the Ignition Control Module (ICM) connected to its connector. - Put the multimeter in VOLTS DC mode.
- With the BLACK multimeter test lead and a wire piercing probe, probe the Ignition Module Connector's BLACK with WHITE stripe wire.
- This is the the circuit labeled with the letter C.
- With the RED lead of the multimeter probe the BATT (+) POSITIVE terminal.
If you got 10 to 12 volts, this result let’s you know that the Ground Circuit is OK. The next step is to test the Switching Signal that the ICM feeds the Ignition Coil, If you DID NOT get 10 to 12 volts, recheck all of your connections and retest. If you still do not get the appropriate voltage, then there’s an open in the Ground Circuit. With this result you have eliminated the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and Ignition Coil as the source of the NO SPARK, NO START Condition. Repair the cause of this open in the Ground Circuit and retest. TEST 3: Testing for the Ignition Coil Switching Signal  HTML_CAPTION - HTML_CAPTION
1/ 2 Previous image Enlarge Close Next image
In this test step, you’re gonna’ test to see if the Ignition Module is feeding the Ignition Coil with a Switching Signal. You’ll be testing this Signal at the Ignition Control Module (ICM) itself: - This test is performed with the Ignition Coil Connector disconnected.
- Connect the RED wire of the LED to the Battery Positive Terminal.
- Connect the BLACK wire of the LED to the the D circuit of the Ignition Control Module. This is the WHITE with BLACK stripe wire of the connector. Make sure that you're installing everything in it's proper place.
- Have an assistant crank the engine.
If the LED Light flashed on and off the whole time the engine was cranking, this result let’s you know that the Ignition Coil is BAD. Replacing it will solve your NO START condition.
If the LED Light DID NOT flash on and off the whole time the engine was cranking, recheck all of your connections. If still no flashes from the LED Light, then this result eliminates the Ignition Coil as the source of the NO SPARK, NO START problem.
All this should give you someplace to start with huh? haha
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Your only as good as your tools!
(This post was edited by Mr.scotty on Jun 3, 2011, 10:26 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 4, 2011, 2:40 AM
Post #36 of 48
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 Mr. Scotty -
Kitty approves it all even if spaced out
Tom
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jun 4, 2011, 2:44 AM)
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Mr.scotty
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Jun 4, 2011, 9:45 AM
Post #37 of 48
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Haha Thanks Tom, I made sure there was no links in it cause I got it all from a diagnostics site I use.
I just try'd to give him all things that it could be and posted them all so he has no down time.
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Your only as good as your tools!
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richardlice
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Jun 4, 2011, 11:29 AM
Post #38 of 48
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performed all the tests have the 5 volts ground and power to the crank sensor, i have the 12 on both sides of the icm and the light does not flash, ive tested and tested this 4 times all testing good, so i should have spark but when i pull the coil wire off of the cap and try to ground it i still dont get spark, i am confused as hell
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richardlice
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Jun 4, 2011, 11:34 AM
Post #39 of 48
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what about the ignition control sig. how do i test that one the b circut in the pictures, could that be it
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richardlice
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Jun 4, 2011, 12:19 PM
Post #40 of 48
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found the problem the crank position sensor had the ground and power touching i seperated them and taped them up and now it cranks, thank you i appreciate your help and thorougness with my problem now i can get back to work and recover from this event, once again i thank you
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Mr.scotty
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Jun 4, 2011, 1:39 PM
Post #41 of 48
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No problem buddy!
Glad ya got her fixed!
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Your only as good as your tools!
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richardlice
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Jun 4, 2011, 4:54 PM
Post #42 of 48
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test drove it to town it runs rough and backfires a little, at about 55 it runs great, if im still a tooth of on the dist. could that cause it to run rough at an idle or is it the PID cam offset that is wrong?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 4, 2011, 4:55 PM
Post #43 of 48
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Same thing. You should soon see a code P1345
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Mr.scotty
Enthusiast
Jun 4, 2011, 8:03 PM
Post #44 of 48
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Yeah, It needs to be set perfect to run perfect.
The code P1345 hammer-time mentioned is Crank shaft cam shaft correlation, The PCM should see that and turn the check engine light on.
Atleast it kinda runs..heh
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Your only as good as your tools!
(This post was edited by Mr.scotty on Jun 4, 2011, 8:05 PM)
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richardlice
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Jun 4, 2011, 11:06 PM
Post #45 of 48
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can i do that with a code reader or do i have to have a pro scan tool?
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Mr.scotty
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Jun 5, 2011, 6:27 PM
Post #46 of 48
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Yeah the code can be read with any code reader for OBD2.
The timing needs to be adjusted at the distributor.
Something with the timing is still not set correctly.
If you keep driving the vehicle the Check engine light will come on if it isn't already.
Is it on?
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Your only as good as your tools!
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Mr.scotty
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Jun 5, 2011, 6:44 PM
Post #48 of 48
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I mean the marks on the distributor... not timing..oop's.
I thought he just wanted to read the codes so he knew why the light was on.
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Your only as good as your tools!
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1989 toyota pickup 3.0 crank no start
Please Help - Knock sound & engine fail
