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dadrobb
User
Dec 23, 2016, 3:00 PM
Post #1 of 34
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I have a 94 F250 that stopped running. It has a 5.8 liter gas engine. Where do I start to troubleshoot? It has 45 lbs. gas pressure and spark.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 23, 2016, 4:22 PM
Post #2 of 34
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What were the events that led up to the no running situation? Will it start by spraying starting fluid into the intake?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 24, 2016, 12:54 AM
Post #3 of 34
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I would try what DS just suggested first. If no reaction next I personally would check for valve timing. If way off usually this engine would spin way too easily, have spark and fuel but lacks compression. That would show on the "All Crank, no start" list of things to check.
BTW that's controlled by the timing chain in this engine,
T
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dadrobb
User
Dec 24, 2016, 7:01 AM
Post #4 of 34
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it was sitting there idling and acted like it ran out of gas. Both pumps are working but it acts like the injectors are not getting fuel.I changed the TPS and fixed the connection on the pressure regulator. I think I will start at the computer and work my way out from there. It does have spark and fuel pressure. The way it stopped running I think it must be something stupid , I just haven't tracked it down.Does this year have a crank and cam sensor? I found an unplugged wire on the passenger side of the engine but no connector for it. I am confused.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 24, 2016, 8:55 AM
Post #5 of 34
(2626 views)
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Since it just did this so you said out of the blue and found spark and fuel pressure have you tried starting fluid yet? You wouldn't even need fuel at all DELIVERED and that should make it fire up if only poorly for a second or two.
Another something without going too nuts is tap on relays should all be in one covered box under the hood on this - I think? Some things were changing around these years but if relays look like this.........
Those and other types too can just give up and work if you give those a love tap one at a time and try. If one allows it to run that one is no good. If no change it doesn't prove anything yet.
Prime it with starting fluid as you said you have spark.
If that does nothing at all for the age (not a problem) move on to things more common like valve timing being off vie timing chain that has a nylon cam gear if still OE that can jump. Has everything but will NOT run. You'll find low compression and wet spark plugs.
Bad holiday weekend for getting parts if we can zoom in on this. Don't worry about one wire and plug that may have been for something you don't have if no other end to it found. Look at it and you'll see it's dirty as it wasn't plugged into anything probably?
T
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 24, 2016, 9:35 AM
Post #6 of 34
(2620 views)
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Personally, I wouldn't start attacking the PCM in this until you actually figure out what is causing the engine to not run. If the engine runs on starting fluid, that tells you it isn't getting fuel past the injectors. From there you figure out why the injectors are not being pulsed. When diagnosing problems, such as yours, you always figure out what is missing first and then work back to the cause using testing methods and procedures. If professionals just started replacing things without troubleshooting, we'd be out of a job or have some really pissed off customers.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 24, 2016, 9:36 AM)
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dadrobb
User
Dec 24, 2016, 10:29 AM
Post #7 of 34
(2610 views)
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Alright, I will start with the starting fluid and see what happens. Not going to work on it till after Christmas, but will be back after.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 24, 2016, 4:17 PM
Post #8 of 34
(2595 views)
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Just because you have pressure doesn't necessarily mean you have fuel in that system.
There are 2 pumps in the system, a pressure pump on the rail and a feeder pump in the tank. Make sure you are actually getting fuel and that it's not contaminated.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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dadrobb
User
Dec 28, 2016, 10:03 AM
Post #9 of 34
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when I checked the fuel pumps there was gas returning to the tank.I only have one tank on this truck. It was an oil field truck and is completely bastardized. When some thing stopped working it was by passed. Thats why I am having so much trouble with it. I will get to the bottom of it! Checked the relays under the hood yesterday and all the connections were corroded and falling apart.Can I buy the pigtail connectors at an auto store and are the relays all wired so the prongs are the same? Otherwise its off to the salvage yards to find them. I plan on replacing the two relays.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 28, 2016, 10:15 AM
Post #10 of 34
(2557 views)
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Corroded connection for relays and Pig-tails: Not sure if available new and if so might all have same color wires! Really helps to either mark them well and permanently and proper splice or if you have a pick your own junkyard get good correct ones - check full size cars too for the best ones.
If things have been "bastardized" and any patch or hack that made it work I would try to undo that and fix it properly for the long run or can see never ending confusion on where a problem really is now or next time,
T
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dadrobb
User
Dec 28, 2016, 10:34 AM
Post #11 of 34
(2553 views)
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I agree! That makes sense to do now. It is my plow truck and I need it to work when I need it. I'll figure it out eventually. Thanks for your help, and I will be back, I'm sure!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 28, 2016, 11:07 AM
Post #12 of 34
(2550 views)
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Funny - I plow too by chance a GM thing. Needed a headlight pigtail found new but gauge was so bad didn't use it and have a whole box full for sealed single beam newer than this. Just for me but if I can't see (dark up north and I am) there's no point if it runs!
Point: The new pigtail in the case isn't marked, fits but lower gauge by a lot! Didn't use it and all wires were black. Trouble there is just whacked, if that one doesn't work they both quit! How special
It's just worked with a finishing nail and solder for now about 8 years so leave it alone as I only use it for my self and know how to make it work in an emergency but point was the junkyard ones were great but that needed two wires in one slot that provided ground to both. All junkyard ones were good otherwise and wrong colors.
Just don't lose track of that if replacing a connection and do solder and shrink wrap over your splices if you probably have to do those replacement somehow,
T
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dadrobb
User
Dec 28, 2016, 6:55 PM
Post #13 of 34
(2541 views)
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Thanks!I actually found the replacement "innard" connectors for the plugs for my relays. just have to get them ordered.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 28, 2016, 9:49 PM
Post #14 of 34
(2529 views)
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Good luck and hope they are just what you need and easy or better all correct colors might be too hopeful. Check others anywhere and do use some "electric" grease now saw it sold by just that name otherwise called "dialectic" grease and nobody call it that by name it seems, Tom
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dadrobb
User
Dec 29, 2016, 3:47 PM
Post #15 of 34
(2511 views)
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There are two square relays on the drivers side. One is green and the other one is black. they both have power with the key on. What do these do? Sorry if you think this is a silly question. How and what am I checking for on these?The connection box was super corroded and I broke the biggest(yellow) connector off. Can I some how repair it?Thanks
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 29, 2016, 5:19 PM
Post #16 of 34
(2507 views)
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The green one is usually the main power relay for the computer and the other one should be the fuel pump although Alldata shows them in the main fuse box.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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dadrobb
User
Dec 29, 2016, 6:04 PM
Post #17 of 34
(2500 views)
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my truck doesn't have a box. the relays are connected in the wiring harness. the green one is the one with the connection broken.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 29, 2016, 6:07 PM
Post #18 of 34
(2497 views)
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If that is the case you likely aren't seeing the check engine light coming on for bulb check if that relay doesn't power up.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 29, 2016, 8:05 PM
Post #19 of 34
(2490 views)
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If that is the EEC or fuel pump relay, how are you getting fuel pressure?
What color are the wires on the suspect relay?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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dadrobb
User
Dec 29, 2016, 8:21 PM
Post #20 of 34
(2482 views)
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not sure about the fuel pressure now. I was checking the relays for power and the wires fell apart.starting again and now the snow is starting. a little at a time and you guys are really helping me out! thanks
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 29, 2016, 11:15 PM
Post #21 of 34
(2477 views)
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Many for Ford: Relays not in a box and marked as HT showed the fuel one is green skirted OE, EEC is brown skirted and think A/C is grey not near the others. If older type and OE the skirts with have distortions so you can't swap those if you wanted to test one to another but this is where they plug in "to" not the relay necessarily itself.
Fuel pressure should be a valve stem same size as for tires on rail same size cap on it and the Schrader valve is inside deeper. You need a deeper 1/8th (?) Schrader tool to take the pin out if I recall.
Pic if shows for fuel relay and why it doesn't swap if older that '94 I thought had?
> 
^^^
See nub/lump that doesn't allow swapping that type only OE. Aftermarkets should swap one to another,
T
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nickwarner
Veteran
/ Moderator
Jan 4, 2017, 8:07 AM
Post #22 of 34
(2449 views)
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Are the relays really just hanging in the air on this? That year had a little box with them that sat right next to the air cleaner. Perhaps it was on the list of things that got bastardized. But the wire colors are hopefully left be from factory. Your best bet might be to get a box with some wire left on it from a boneyard. I just scrapped my 94 Ford this fall or I would have one to send out myself. But you should be able to find an F-series or Bronco in a yard that has the box in an uncorroded state, you could just match up the wire colors and have it put back to proper order reasonably easily.
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dadrobb
User
Feb 11, 2017, 7:48 AM
Post #23 of 34
(2373 views)
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Hey everyone! I went through and tested everything connected to the ignition. Fixed a bunch of wires that were "bastardized",and did some repairs on them. It is looking that the pick up coil is not working at this time.The external module checks out as good. the ignition coil is good, not getting power from the distributor.I looked up how to change the PIP and it seem you must pull the distributor to change it.I was wondering if it would be just as easy to replace the distributor with a new one.The $ difference isn't that much.What I was wondering is if the New distributor has all the sensors already installed. Thanks for your help, it has been cold here so I put off changing anything till it got above freezing.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 11, 2017, 8:35 AM
Post #24 of 34
(2371 views)
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If somehow you really think this needs the pick up coil inside distributor just know if the slightest sludge (even cared for) it's a pest to remove without breaking something.
It's either good or it isn't IMO just find a whole used distributor at a pick your own that was clearly running when junked. The module OE bitchy bolts bring the socket for those so you know you can change them or find another. They will snap right off with little effort and a horror to fix. It's just a 7/32" but VERY narrow bolt holes to undo and replace module from known good if so. How did you rule that out with any certainty? You can but not if a lot of other "bastardized" things are back in proper order,
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Feb 11, 2017, 8:36 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 11, 2017, 8:38 AM
Post #25 of 34
(2365 views)
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How about one easy test first before you condemn the distributor.
Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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