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2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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moparcolt
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Aug 5, 2009, 10:22 AM
Post #1 of 19
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2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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I have a 2002 Chrysler Town & country, 3.8L, 112,000 miles
my father in law gave my wife this van and all was good for a few weeks then it started to act up. It stalled a few times, but I didn't think much of it. Then one of the kids left the door ajar or a light on or something, not sure I wasn't with her and she had to have the car jumped to get it started. I am not sure this is a factor, It seemed to be fine.
SO we drove it some more, took it to a concert in the park, and when we went to go home I started it up and it was missing,and stalled when I tried tto go. Tried again and I was able to keep it running (really rough) but wouldn't idle very good.
So I checked the codes and there were like 10 so I unhooked the battery and reset it. Then I came up with about 5 P1684,P1478, Battery related, P0122 TPS low, P0118 temp sensor, and P0108 Map sensor.
I tried replacing the Map sensor and coolant temp sensor buty it still does'nt run any betterbut now only pulled 4 codes the same P1684, P1478, P0118, and a new one P0206 Injector 6.
Any Ideas? where should I start?
I can't sfford to pay to get it checked, Or to just keep trying different parts?
Thanks for any ideas you may have!
Chris
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Aug 5, 2009, 12:30 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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mopar; Your symptoms indicate an over-fueling condition. The coolant temp sensor tells the computer engine temp and the PCM delivers fuel accordingly. If the CTS is telling the computer that the engine is cold, it will command extra fuel.
Your engine has two sensors. One for the guage and one for the computer. Be certain that you replaced the correct one. PO206 is for the #6 injector. Although I've never run into this one, could be that that injector is shorted and staying 'wide' open, causing the over-fueling. Assuming that the CTS is not the problem, you'll need to ohm check the injector(s). The resistance should be 10-16 ohms. You will have to remove the plenum to gain access.
Loren
SW Washington
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Anonymous Poster
Aug 5, 2009, 1:35 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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Definitely keep blindly throwing parts at it until you run out of money or give up. Not only will the parts stores love you, you will also introduce a whole bunch of new variables which will increase the difficulty for the professional you eventually take it to to find the original problem plus any you added to it.
That was my sarcastic answer but it's true. The engine computer has to update its fuel metering tables it has in memory every time you replace a sensor. When diagnostic trouble codes are stored, the computer is programmed to ignore certain criteria, and it will not perform some sensor tests and it will not allow some diagnostic codes to be set until other codes are erased and their cause(s) repaired.
Every time you replace a part, you risk bending a pin in the connector, pulling a wire out of its pin, installing a defective new part, and lots of other things. Professionals all have stories they can share of things they've done so don't think it can't happen to careful do-it-yourselfers.
Blindly replacing parts without properly diagnosing the system is the most expensive and least effective way of repairing your vehicle. Sensors don't fail that often, especially five or ten at once. When you have so many codes at once, look for something they have in common. Based on the "TPS Low" code, I would start by looking at the three wires on it. Measure the voltages on them with the ignition switch turned on. One of them must have 5 volts. If it's missing, suspect a broken or grounded wire or a shorted sensor. A shorted sensor is not common. The wire is most likely to be open where multiple wires are spliced together. I would lean toward a wire being grounded because the coolant temperature sensor also runs off the 5 volt supply, but not on that same feed wire. If the wire was open, the coolant temp. sensor would still be working and would not set a code. The diagnostic codes do not indicate which sensor is defective; they indicate which CIRCUIT has the problem or the improper results the computer saw from a sensor.
caradiodoc
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 5, 2009, 1:39 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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caradiodoc
If you would like to give advice at the site, we would love to have you but please register and log in so you can be identified.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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moparcolt
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Aug 5, 2009, 2:02 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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I checked for voltage before I replaced thr Map Sensor It has 3 wires. I was thinking the center one is a ground? anyone know for sure which wire should have 5 volts on it? I got like 4.8 or something like that on the two outside wires and nothing on the center, but between either outside wire and the center I had 4.8v
I called on the TPS sensor and the Napa manager said he only showed one sensor. I replaced the one with two wires behind the stat housing under/behind the coils. Is there another? where is it located?
I tried to start again and got a couple ,more codes total 6 now but 2 seem like nothing
P1684, P0122, P0118, P0206, P1478. P1598
Thanks for the help so far.
Chris
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Hammer Time
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Aug 5, 2009, 8:58 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Anonymous Poster
Aug 5, 2009, 10:51 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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do you have a pic like that for the MAP sensor?
also is there a second temp sensor somewhere? one for the guage and one for the computer?
Chris
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Hammer Time
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Aug 5, 2009, 11:09 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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Yes, there are 2 sensors. The temp sensor for the computer is under the coil and has 2 wires, one 2 tone green and the violet and orange
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moparcolt
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Aug 10, 2009, 9:55 AM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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I had a friend who is a chrysler tech stop by and hook it up to a scanner. He thinks it might be the 5 volt supply wire. It is pink and yellow, runs from control module to themap sensor, throttle position sensor , temp sensor and a couple of others. So it looks like I need to gey into the wiring harness, Has anyone had any luck finding broken wires in the harness? what should I look for? where should I start?
Chris
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moparcolt
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Aug 10, 2009, 1:10 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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I traced the wire from the splice in the harness where it goes to each senser back to the control module up by the battery, It looks fine, I checked voltage at the module and it was only 3.5V
could it be the control module?
If I cut the wir a few inches from the module and checked the voltage again would I get the same voltage? Would cuttinig the sensors loose change anything?
Chris
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Hammer Time
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Aug 10, 2009, 1:13 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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Unplug all the sensors when you test that. One shorted sensor will pull all the supply voltages down and could be the actual problem. Plug them back in one at a time but remember to clear the codes after.
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moparcolt
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Aug 10, 2009, 1:18 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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which sensors do I need to unplug? I know the map, Throttle Position, amd coolant temp, and the other two I think are battery temp(where is that) and something with the air conditioning? don't know where that one is either?
chris
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Hammer Time
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Aug 10, 2009, 1:26 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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Add TPS to this
The coolant temp and battery do not run off the 5v ref
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(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 10, 2009, 1:30 PM)
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moparcolt
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Aug 10, 2009, 2:07 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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where is the A/C preasure sensor located? does the knock sensor work off the 5 volt Supply/reference signal?, it only has 2 wires?
Chris
(This post was edited by moparcolt on Aug 10, 2009, 2:45 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Aug 10, 2009, 8:46 PM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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No, the knock sensor doesn't use 5v.
The A/C switch is right near the right side strut tower next to the high side service port.
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moparcolt
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Aug 11, 2009, 9:55 AM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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so I disconnected the sensors and checked voltage at all of them. I got 3.8 volts all the wires look good.
I have eliminated everything except the CPU.
How do I check it?
The battery was low, so I hooked my batt`ery charger to it and something on the intake manifold started humming. anyone had this happen?
chris
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Hammer Time
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Aug 11, 2009, 10:05 AM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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You can't do any voltage tests unless you have a fully charged battery
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moparcolt
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Aug 11, 2009, 11:05 AM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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I kmow, I changed the battery, the one in the car seemed like it had a dead cell or something so I replaced it with one that was good and reading 12+ volts, still got 3.8 volts , also had to change the plugs because the ones in the motor had become so fouled from the over rich condition. It would start again but still runs rich and rough.
It's got to be the computer, I have ruled everything else out as far as I can tell.
Anything else I can check?
Chris
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Aug 14, 2009, 9:07 AM
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Re: 2002 Chrysler T&C runs rough,stalls. blows smoke!!!
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still omnly getting 3.8 volts with everything unplugged and fully charged battery! Is there anything else that can cause the low voltage? does it share anyother circuitry with another 5V supply to anything else? aer there any other 5 volt reference signals to anything else?
Do I assume at some point that I need to replace the computer?
That is about where I am at, unless there is something else to do I think I need to order a computer or else have this one rebuilt! any input guys?
Thanks, Chris
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