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2004 chevy astro won't start!! help!!!!
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pepo
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Mar 31, 2009, 12:25 PM
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2004 chevy astro won't start!! help!!!!
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Chevy Astro 2004 134,000 miles. I replaced fuel filter, fuel pump, spark plugs and nothing! I've check relays and fuses and everything is looking good. fault codes are 0420,0172,0175. I spray some starting fluid in the intake and it did start until SF is consumed.
I have check the rotor and cap looks good. There is spark comming out from the distribuitor. Please!!!!! advice
(This post was edited by pepo on Mar 31, 2009, 1:03 PM)
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Mar 31, 2009, 3:22 PM
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Re: 2004 chevy astro won't start!! help!!!!
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pepo; The codes listed wouldn't have anything to do with it starting. Hopefully, they were set prior to the problem at hand. Are you getting fuel to the injectors? Give us more details...What reason did you replace the plugs and fuel pump? What were the symptoms prior? Were the spark plugs wet with fuel when you replaced them? Are they now?
Loren
SW Washington
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pepo
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Mar 31, 2009, 3:50 PM
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Loren,Thanks for your fast reply. you are right about the codes because the CEL was on long time ago and that might be the oxigen sensors. There where no symptoms before it happens, I park the van in the driveway and thats it it won't start next morning. I replaced the fuel pump because the same thing happened to another astro I had before this one an that was it, it works after the Fuel pump replacement. the plugs were really bad almost nothing left in the center of them (diode?) I have no idea is the fuel is getting to the injectors I will I need to check that. I also check all relays and fuses everything is OK.
I really Appreciate your Help!!!
Thanks
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Mar 31, 2009, 3:55 PM
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pepo; Pick a couple of spark plugs that are easy to get to, and pull them for a look. I wouldn't think that you've lost a timing chain at 134k, but anything is possible. If you have a major parts store in your area, you may be able to rent a fuel pressure tester. A pressure reading, key on, engine off, would help. Also, a noid light to plug into an injector connector to see if it 'triggers' during crank.
Loren
SW Washington
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pepo
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Mar 31, 2009, 4:03 PM
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Thanks loren i will do the presure test, But remember the I spray starting fluid to the intake and it did start until the sarting fluid ran out. could be fuel pressure at the injectors, what I did notice was a lot of dirt coming out of the old fuel filter when replaced.
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way2old
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Mar 31, 2009, 4:10 PM
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Check under the hood in the fuse block. Check fuses labeled ECM I and ECM B. These control current to the injectors also.
Being way2old is why I need help from younger minds
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pepo
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Mar 31, 2009, 4:13 PM
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I checked all of them with a meter and they are good.
Thanks,
Pepo
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Mar 31, 2009, 4:18 PM
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Duh! I read that, but forgot...Sorry. It's an old phart thing. (I was thinking possible flooding) Okay, forget the spark plug thing. LOL. But, proceed with the pressure test and injector pulse.
Loren
SW Washington
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pepo
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Mar 31, 2009, 4:21 PM
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I will check pressure tomorrow and I'll keep you guys posted!! Thanks
Pepo
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flgmtech1
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Apr 1, 2009, 7:02 AM
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DTC P0172 Fuel Trim System Rich Bank 1
DTC P0420 Catalyst System Low Efficiency Bank 1
DTC P0175 Fuel Trim System Rich Bank 2
All of these codes can also set because you are starting this vehicle in open loop with the starting fluid and the system is seeing rich mixture at the O2 sensors because the PCM is not controlling the fuel mixture, you are overriding the system so these are probably induced codes and not true fualt codes that are related to why the engine will not start.
As advised you really need to see if your injectors are pulsing, as well as use of a scan tool to see if they are being commanded on is taking place in the PCM, also, if your issue is not a Security issue with the Vehicle theft deterrent system disabling the fuel, thus you can run the vehicle with starting fluid or carb cleaner but it is not receiving fuel on it's own.
This is definitely a fuel control issue and with a fuel pressure gauge,. a test light or noid light for the injectors and preferably a way to scan the data list for the PCM for the fuel injectors would all be helpful to diagnose this easily so you are not thowing parts at it
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pepo
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Apr 2, 2009, 10:38 AM
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Hi, I went to 2 of the big auto parts stores in my area but they dont have the fuel pressere guage to rent just for sale. I havent been able to check pressure on the gas line but what I did was disconect the fuel filter and crank and there is a lot of fuel going from tank to engine,I dont know if is the security module I have no idea how that works at this point I am frustrated, no job, BROKE, and not been able to bring it to a shop ( because iam broke) and on foot!!!!LOL will see what happened. BTW this is an Astro Cargo Van and i don'tknow if the security module is working I don't have any remote control for the security thing. may be its activated with the key IDK!!
THANKS everyone for your help.
Pepo
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flgmtech1
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Apr 2, 2009, 2:09 PM
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okay, if your receiving fuel where you removed the filter and then you are cranking it, this just means that the pump is pumping and is being commanded on, so you may not have a security issue. However, the fact remains that fuel presence or pressure does not equal volume, this means you can show fuel but not the correct amount of pressure or volume to run the vehicle which should be around 60-65 psi. But it still comes back to an injector issue and if the pump is pumping it may be safe to rule out the security VTD fuel enable issue, but we really need to go to the injector take the connector off of one unplug it and using a simple test light to battery or body ground see if the test light lights or go across the connector with the test light to see if it blinks while cranking.
if you can not reach the injectors remove the engine cover also known as the doghouse or dollhouse inside the van, between the two front seats, then I want you to locate te multi-way harness connector for the injectors, this is the only way you will be able to do this on the vortec as the poppets are inside the intake plenum and has a single 12 wire connector plugged into the top at the center of the intake plenum just to the rear of the throttle body air cleaner cover. remove this connector and with a multimeter test for voltage on each of the pink wires terminals B,D,E,H,J,L these are all Ignition 1 fused power and you can then test the fuse itself if there is no power at any of them. Or you can simply use a test light to good ground and ensure with key on you have voltage at all 6 pink wires this ensures the circuit is good as well as the fuse. Measure the resistance from the ECM 1 fuse to the ignition 1 voltage circuit terminal of a fuel injector with a DMM. i.e. any of the pink wire connector terminals. (DMM=Digital multi meter)
is the resistance 5 Ohms or more? If it is you have high resistance in the circuit, between the fuse and the terminals, if it is not above 5 ohms or below 5 ohms it is fine and the vehicle should of started, then it is a matter of the PCM not pulsing the ground, then you should see if using a test light connected to the battery positive side touch the other 6 wires one at a time while cranking the motor to see if the flash this means the PCM is pulsing the ground, if not the issue is more than likely a fault internal to the PCM.
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flgmtech1
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Apr 2, 2009, 2:40 PM
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as an afterthought the fuse can be good at the fuse block but may be bad after splice prior to the multiway wire connector, this is the reasoning behind so many redundant tests, they seem stupid or redundant but the simple fact is a rodent can chew through wiring and be inside conduit not touching ground thereby not shorting or blowing the fuse as it is open but not shorted. Thus the IMPORTANCE of testing for both power and grounds at both the fuse block or the source and the connector where the source feeds. Then the act of measuring resistance to test for issues with cuts or chaffing or even "Chewing" of wires that would show power under a simple static test key on engine off not cranking, but when under load, engine cranking, the circuit resistance is such that you drop voltage and or ground and hence no start. FOOD FOR THOUGHT!
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pepo
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Apr 2, 2009, 2:44 PM
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flgmtech1
Thanks!!
I Have the dog house removed Found the plug and used a light tester on the pink wires BDEHJL and they all have power. now I am going to test for pulsing. I just did the test to the other wires and the light
blinks when I crank.
Thanks
Pepo
(This post was edited by pepo on Apr 2, 2009, 2:53 PM)
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flgmtech1
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Apr 2, 2009, 4:15 PM
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well the scary part is that if you have power with a test light on all the pink wires, and you have a blinking test light when your test light is on battery positive and touching all the NON pink wires on the same connector while cranking, means the PCM is pulsing the injectors, so WHY is the poppets not injecting fuel?
The fuel meter body assembly (1) attaches to the lower intake manifold. The fuel meter body assembly performs the following functions: • Distributes fuel evenly to the injectors (3) • Integrates the fuel pressure regulator (6) into the fuel metering system
The Multec 2 fuel injector assembly is a solenoid device controlled by the control module that meters pressurized fuel to a single engine cylinder. The control module energizes the high-impedance, 12 ohms, injector solenoid to open a normally closed ball valve. This allows fuel to flow into the top of the injector, past the ball valve, and through a director plate at the injector outlet. The director plate has four machined holes that control the fuel flow, generating a spray of finely atomized fuel at the injector tip. Fuel from the injector tip is directed at the intake valve, causing the fuel to become further atomized and vaporized before entering the combustion chamber. This fine atomization improves fuel economy and emissions.
This means if your getting power to all injectors at the connector sitting on top if this Vortec Multec Fuel meter body, and the PCM is pulsing ground it leaves me to believe the issue is with the fuel meter body which is the injector assembly that must not be working by all that you have done it leaves only this solution. The only other thing you can do is to remove the fuel meter body from the intake and have fuel going into the fuel meter and powering it up with pulse to see if the injector poppets do in fact deliver fuel, but I highly doubt they do. Suggestion, find a local salvage yard that has one for your vehicle at a decent price.
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Guest
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Apr 2, 2009, 9:50 PM
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This a long thread so if I missed it i apologize but these systems need a minimum of 50psi or they won't start.
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Guest
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Apr 3, 2009, 2:55 AM
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okay, if your receiving fuel where you removed the filter and then you are cranking it, this just means that the pump is pumping and is being commanded on, so you may not have a security issue. However, the fact remains that fuel presence or pressure does not equal volume, this means you can show fuel but not the correct amount of pressure or volume to run the vehicle which should be around 60-65 psi. ] If you read carefully you will see he has already been advised of the pressure specs for this vehicle, 60-65 the fact is he has no pressure gauge, and although he has fuel present, he has no way to gauge the volume or pressure. We know if he has fuel present it should still be enough to start if he turned the key on and off three times with a space of 30 seconds between key cycles to build up pressure it should be enough to start......BUT this sounds liks an issue with the Fuel meter body whereby it has Ignition 1 Power to the Pink wires and Pulse from the PCM thus the circuit is being properly pulsed to engauge the injector ciruit, however this does not mean the injector, Part of the Fuel meter body in this vortec Engine, is actually working. SO I think the pressure side is a moot point at this stage.
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pepo
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May 11, 2009, 5:12 PM
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flgmtech1 Thanks you hit the nail!!! I check the fuel meter body and just 3 injectors were working I replace the whole thing and it works, van is up and running strong!!!
I like to say Thanks!!!! to all who contributed in this thread everything was very helpful to me since I don't have machanical experience.
THANKS TO ALL!!!
Pepo
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Loren Champlain Sr
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May 12, 2009, 4:23 PM
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 flgmtech; Great job! Another one for your collection. You can trade them in at the company store. (actually, they aren't worth anything, but what the hey!)
Loren
SW Washington
(This post was edited by Loren Champlain Sr on May 12, 2009, 4:24 PM)
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