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94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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wildwestzona
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Sep 20, 2010, 7:20 PM
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94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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First, I would like to thank those that have viewed this in an attempt to help.
PROBLEM:
I have a 1994 Buick, 4 cyl. If it sits for a few days it starts right up with no problem. If I shut it off for a few minutes, let's say to get gas - it will still start right back up. However, if after driving it sits for a while, it doesn't want to start. I basically have to keep the key turned and it finally will catch. When it does start it barely starts, it gargles (as though it is flooded), there is a strong heavy gas smell, and then it will slowly warm up back to regular idle. So basically I can only drive it once every few days, because if I keep allowing the key to crank over until it starts, the starter will eventually go out - like it did before.
It did this a year ago, it was starting fine, then slowly it got worse and worse, and eventually the starter went out. I assumed it was a bad starter so we put a new one in, and it started just fine - so problem solved right? Nope, slowly after about 2 months it started to do it again, and the starter finally went out again. So we took the starter back thinking it was just a bad starter, and put a new starter in it. This time I got about 6 months out of it starting perfect, and now it's starting to struggle to start again. So basically if I drive it every day the starter will go out again. SO I KNOW IT'S NOT THE STARTER! I think it basically is flooding it self maybe, then as it sits for a few days, it clears itself out - so what is causing this and what can I do?
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speed
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Sep 20, 2010, 8:24 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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is your check engine light coming on and flashing at all? also when your engine is cranking is like normal it just doesnt want to start or is like a slow crank like its hard for it to crank over? you may have some leaky injectors that are flooding it as you suggested. one thing when you turn your car off do you hear your fuel pump turn off also? or does it keep running after you take turn the key to off but leave it in the ignition?
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Sep 20, 2010, 8:26 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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Well from your description I definitely had some other ideas than a bad starter but just the fact you saying you replaced the starter, multiple times.. cured the problem for months. You would really have to be looking at the starter.
Now there could be something in the system taking the starter out or a case of just replacing it with the cheapest rebuild you can find.
If you swap the starter out again I would make sure to replace both battery cables, clean the mounting areas real good & have the battery tested. If you are using a cheap rebuild you may want to consider getting a better quality replacement....
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wildwestzona
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Sep 20, 2010, 8:32 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE: Yes, my check engine light is on, but it's funny, it also goes off. It is on most of the time, but it fades in and out - I have always just figured that was an electrical problem because it fades in and out all the time.
as far as when it cranks. It cranks regularly. when i take turn the car off, it stops right away, just like normal. I don't really know how to tell if my fuel pump turns off, but it does not keep running.
AS FAR AS THE PERSON RESPONDING TO THE STARTER: I don't see how it can be the starter, the starter going out is just the end result of me continuously cranking it. IT IS MORE THAT IT SEEMS TO BE FLOODING ITSELF. When it finally starts, it gargles, and you get a heavy gas smell. Besides, if it was the starter (which it's not), then I don't see why it would start up just fine after sitting for a few days.
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wildwestzona
Novice
Sep 20, 2010, 8:34 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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oh also. AS FAR AS ME THINKING MY CHECK ENGINE LIGHT IS SIMPLY AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM. the passenger side power windows(front and back) barely roll down and up, so that ads to my belief that the check engine light is simply electrical.
my car has issues, it's old, i know. But i'm a college student living off fincancial aid.
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speed
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Sep 20, 2010, 8:41 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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i beleive cycling the key on, off, on, off, on, will make your check engine light flash codes at you. right down what the codes are if you can. but sidom is the real mechanich here im still learning my stuff, i would personally trust his judgement better than mine with any problem he has his own shop he does these things on all day everyday i only work on cars for 2 hours a day at highschool right now. as for the fuel pump you should just here a whine or whirring type noise when you turn the key to key on engine off postition. the noise will be about 3-4 seconds long and be near the gas tank.
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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wildwestzona
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Sep 20, 2010, 9:15 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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SIDOM, I'm unsure what the point of your post is, are you here to edit my post, and critique what I say - you offered no advice. You even quoted what I said, not sure why you feel the need to do that - and by the way, your quote of what I said was incorrect - I never said what you said i did. Can we please just stick to assistance, diagnosis, and trying to figure the problem out. If you have advice, I would greatly appreciate it, but I'm not interested into debating about what I did and did not say - there is no need for that on this forum. Arguing is pointless.
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speed
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Sep 20, 2010, 9:20 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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If you have advice, I would greatly appreciate it
heres his advice.
Well from your description I definitely had some other ideas than a bad starter but just the fact you saying you replaced the starter, multiple times.. cured the problem for months. You would really have to be looking at the starter.
Now there could be something in the system taking the starter out or a case of just replacing it with the cheapest rebuild you can find.
If you swap the starter out again I would make sure to replace both battery cables, clean the mounting areas real good & have the battery tested. If you are using a cheap rebuild you may want to consider getting a better quality replacement....
the people on here dont get paid for this. they do it cuz they love helping NICE people with their cars. they diagnose what they can tell the problem is from what you have posted. if you dont like their diagnoses go elsewhere, its that simple. you are getting this advice for free instead of taking it to a shop(which by the way most mods on here work in everyday all day and have done so for some time) and spending $150 to find out that your starter is indeed bad again and that you have a problem with the charging system.
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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wildwestzona
Novice
Sep 20, 2010, 9:34 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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speed, how do you figure that I have a problem with people giving me advice. ummm, my post clearly has stated that I wanted to thank those for helping me, I believe I have stated that twice. I'm a grateful person.
The post that I made that statement too, if you read it, was not giving me advice.
You should be directing what your saying to me, to him, I am shocked that you just sent me the post you did. It's way off base. Sorry you misunderstood, but I have not done anything wrong. I posted my problem, I answered your questions, that's it. Then I told someone I didn't want to argue. not sure why your down on me now.
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Sep 20, 2010, 10:03 PM
Post #12 of 20
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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Well it looks like it's just a smiple case of miscommunication. The point of my 2nd post was to point out how your info was confusing me. Those were direct quotes I pulled out of your orginal post. I changed nothing or my tag would be at the bottom of your post.
No point rehashing that.... It happens, 2 people can't get on the same page... There is no real sense making this thread any longer debating whether it's 6 or 1/2 dozen. There's lots of good techs here, it would probably be better & less confusing if someone else jumped in at this point & took it over......
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wildwestzona
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Sep 20, 2010, 10:12 PM
Post #13 of 20
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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Thanks guys. I too apologize. my car is just so strange because when it sits for a few days, it litterally starts right up. If I drive it to school however, and then leave school four hours later, it will barely start. It just cranks and cranks, and then when it finally does start, it barely starts, and it gargles as though it's flooded, it idles so low you think it is going to stall, but slowly it just gains more an more power and then finally idles normal. SO basically I can only drive it ever 2 or 3 days. I have to take the bus the other days.
I will try putting a new battery in it tomorrow and see what that does.
I can't take it to a tech because I don't have the money. I live off financial aid, in fact, I always run out the last month of school and have to borrow money.
It seems to be flooding itself because it will let off a very heavy gas smell.
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speed
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Sep 20, 2010, 10:28 PM
Post #14 of 20
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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Tp sidom--ill take this as a project sidom i dont mind learning about things like this its useful if i ever have a similar case. i dont mind if someone else midns stepping in though but ill just go about it like i would if it were my car.
to wildwest--im now wondering if you are having compression problems. and also spark issues are possible. if you can get hold of a spark plug socket and a ratchet or a friend that can take the spark plugs out and examine them it wouldnt hurt to know. your start engages and turns engine over but it doesnt start. so i guess start with the basics. find what your missing when its taking forever to start. compression or spark are my first guesses. it sounds like your getting fuel so ill ignore that possiblity for now. first things first though clean slate and all, what is your skill level with cars and what kind of tools and how available are tools to you. for what i can think of a compression gauge and spark plug socket and ractchet are desirable for further diagnoses, and a multimeter would be great but a test light or volt meter even would do the trick for now. im not sure what kind of ignition is on this if its a coil pack or distributor but thats a different matter.(sorry for jumping around alot i do that as things come to mind) but ill try to help you best i can
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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wildwestzona
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Sep 20, 2010, 10:56 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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I checked the spark plugs, and the wires, they are functioning ok. Tell me this, why does it start with no problems once it has been sitting a few days. We haven't touched on that yet, I would be interested in getting a hypothesis. It only stuggles to start if I drive it daily. Like I said, I will go to class, come out 4 hours later and it barely wants to start.
Also - why does it start right back up with no problems if I just have to shut it off for a few minutes like when I get gas.
Also - what would cause the heavy smell of gas once it does barely start.
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speed
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Sep 20, 2010, 11:06 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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well could you tell me wha the spark plugs look like? and im still working out why it has a hard time starting after four hours but not so much after a few minutes or few days even, its possible that your engine coolant temp sensor is having problems. could also be a MAP sensor or a MAF sensor depending on which one this car has.....let me think here ill get back to you in a second
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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speed
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Sep 20, 2010, 11:16 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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theory for flooding problem...hope its right.... your MAP or MAF sensor is failing. it is doing the following... lets say you go to start your car and all is well. your sensor is fine. well after awhile lets say that when you turn the car off it gets cold fast and chokes the readings more than normal and is clogged. possibley clogged by something that is expanding and contracting with the heat changes in letting the car sit for a few hours few minutes or days. so when it sits for a few days it ahs tiemn to cool off to normal and its allowing enough air throuhgt ot o get by and start. well it gets warmed up and you drive it for awhile then stoip and get a drink. the sensor is still hot enough that nothing has had a chance ot expand or cantract and amke a difference. then after four hours its cold again at least the sensor is but the object pluggin it isnt, different materials expand and contrast at idfferent heat levels. this could explain it to me. so basically ywhen it starts fine everythign is good your getting a correct reading of a fuel:air ratio. well when it cools and your cars sensor is cold and contracts around the still hot pobject blocking it cloggs it and gives an incorrect reading that you ahve a lean mixture and need more fuel it starts give more fuel less air. once it starts up it takes readings and autocorrects itself burning extra gas. again this is only a theory i thought of it makes sense to me hope it does to you and hope that sidom reads this and can confirm this to be possible or another tech to confirm this also. any questions just ask, ill do my best to explain it.
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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wildwestzona
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Sep 20, 2010, 11:30 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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ok, I will locate someone that understands that theory and then let them start my car, etc... to see if he agrees. Naturally it's difficult for you because you can't physically be with the car. This process of theories and narrowing things down, or just getting other ideas is what I was hoping for.
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speed
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Sep 21, 2010, 7:40 PM
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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yeah its probably a long shot but idk. might want to try the crank position sensor, that could be a problem too. if you could find someone that could get your cars check engine light to flash codes for us that would be a huge help in diagnosing the problem.
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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(:ksk:)
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Sep 22, 2010, 11:58 AM
Post #20 of 20
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Re: 94' Buick problems STARTING, strange please help
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I had a similiar problem, I replaced fuel pump, relays and everything. Mine turned out to be the temperature sensor, located on your engine, in between the fan and the airfilter( on my truck)
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