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Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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MikeC81
User
Aug 20, 2022, 1:08 PM
Post #1 of 34
(2565 views)
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Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Working on 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited lower control arm front bolt which has the retention nut. The thing has been a joy thus far.. << sarcasm
Long story short, I successfully got the bolt loosened enough to get the retention bolt off. This required the use of a two lug nuts (first one broke) with a ratchet hooked up to a 6 foot cheater bar going 1 to 2 clicks at a time (not fun). Worked on it for about 5 hours but he retention nut is free!
So I'm home free right? not quite apparently. I turn the ratchet and it gets easy to turn. I think I'm finally out and use the ratchet for about 15 minutes straight. I notice the bolt is turning, but not headed to the exit.
My thought is maybe one portion of the screw is stripped. I grab a crowbar to put on the end of the screw to apply careful pressure as I use the ratchet with the other hand with my smaller 3 foot cheater bar (not fun.) I was able to get the screw out this way until about 7 threads left to be seen but then it stops and just spins not progressing.
So long story short, I've tried the following...
1) Air hammer to the back of the screw (does nothing)
2) manual hammer to the back of the screw via pick. (no progress
3) A screwdriver stuck into the bottom of the front part of the nut prying out while I attempt to ratchet at the same time (very difficult and no real progress)
4) Vice grips with channel locks to the front of the bolt (not enough clearance and hard to turn)
5) Both electric and air impact drivers.
6) Lots of PB Blaster with a torch applied multiple times.
I'm sitting there thinking what do auto mechanics do when they have an issue like this. They don't have multiple days to work on one bolt.
My guess is part of the bolt threads are stripped which must have occurred while initiating the bolt to loosen. Either this or because the inside of the bushing is not threaded my goal should be to either push or pull the bolt out as opposed to unscrew it (which doesn't make sense to me as every diy vid shows this coming out with minimal effort with an impact.
Any advise/tips is greatly appreciated as this is my primary vehicle completely taken apart as I attempt to replace most of my suspension components.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 20, 2022, 1:57 PM
Post #2 of 34
(2556 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Mike - all items involved need to go for new! Stripped out FE parts no room for games OMG a 6 foot "cheater" bar! IF needed the party was lost,
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 20, 2022, 2:23 PM
Post #3 of 34
(2550 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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If this is the setup you have then you need to just cut the bolts off and buy new ones from the dealer.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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MikeC81
User
Aug 21, 2022, 7:29 AM
Post #4 of 34
(2521 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Nice illustration. Unfortunately the problem child is on the other side. The horizontal bolt. I will try to get some pics and post
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MikeC81
User
Aug 21, 2022, 8:15 AM
Post #5 of 34
(2511 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Well I do have pics but this site won't let me upload it for some reason. Maybe because I'm new here
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 21, 2022, 8:19 AM
Post #6 of 34
(2508 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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No, there is no restriction to upload images beyond the image itself. Most likely they are just too large of a file or possibly the wrong format.
http://autoforums.carjunky.com/...LOAD_PHOTOS_P151389/
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 21, 2022, 8:55 AM
Post #7 of 34
(2504 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Mike, I'm lost as to why this is so hard. You mentioned use of "torch" back several posts? Propane, Mapp or Oxy/Acet?
With some finesse only if away from rubber bushings, other things too if good with Oxy/Acet need to be fast to made a nut glow orange then fast with tools.
If room allows those could cut the nut right off AYOR what's near it.
Don't if not both good at that or safe area with other things around.
Speed totally matters, glowing metal is going to give up unless somehow threads all gone next would be cut it off.
None of that is good without proper place, gear to protect you AND put a fire out.
If not available forget that find another approach IDK if a nut splitter would fit - these tools cost big bucks if you don't already have them not worth it for one job,
Tom
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MikeC81
User
Aug 21, 2022, 11:56 AM
Post #8 of 34
(2493 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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When i click to upload an image the hyperlink sends me to a page called 'Image System Management" which requires login. So I register for that again and then it takes me a page that looks like I can only upload to folders for a profile. I can't even find a way to upload there as there is no clear button.
I've never had an issue uploading a picture to a forum so this is new for me to go through so many hoops. I do understand the puc would be allowed since it's from my android which is pretty much brand new
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 21, 2022, 12:00 PM
Post #9 of 34
(2489 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Did you even read the instructions in the link I gave you?
The step by step instructions are pretty clear.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 21, 2022, 12:07 PM
Post #10 of 34
(2487 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Pics aren't for me either here. Try a hosting site that does allow then copy link to YOUR pics only please or try the copy/paste thing.
So far IDK how much a pic is going to help it's a nut and bolt issue and how it failed is the problem to fix. You already know new ones go back later limit damage to just the nuts bolts as needed if it goes there,
T
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MikeC81
User
Aug 21, 2022, 12:09 PM
Post #11 of 34
(2486 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Mike, I'm lost as to why this is so hard. You mentioned use of "torch" back several posts? Propane, Mapp or Oxy/Acet?
With some finesse only if away from rubber bushings, other things too if good with Oxy/Acet need to be fast to made a nut glow orange then fast with tools.
If room allows those could cut the nut right off AYOR what's near it.
Don't if not both good at that or safe area with other things around.
Speed totally matters, glowing metal is going to give up unless somehow threads all gone next would be cut it off.
None of that is good without proper place, gear to protect you AND put a fire out.
If not available forget that find another approach IDK if a nut splitter would fit - these tools cost big bucks if you don't already have them not worth it for one job,
Tom
Well you're not the only one confused to why this has become so difficult. My initial impression is the bolt was rust welded from not moving the past 12 years. Ok I get that so we can 'break in' the bolt right with lots of PB blaster and if needed a torque wrench. Once we 'break' the seal it should easily come out with an impact right?
Not so fast. The bolt never did crack with either the use of two impacts (air and electric) nor a breaker bar. What ended up working SLOWLY was a ratchet with a 6 foot cheater bar literally going 2 clicks at a time due to the lack of clearance. So after hours of doing that the bolt came enough forward to get the locking nut off in the back.
So I feel I'm home free. I try an impact again and nothing. So I go back old school to the ratchet. I turn the thing for 15 minutes verifying the end of the nut is actually turning. It is
The problem is; however, the bolt only goes to like 7 threads visualized on the back before it seems it actually wants to go the opposite direction with turning the ratchet counterclockwise. So I apply a crowbar to the back of the bolt in attempt to put some pressure on the bolt to help it back out (,I realize I shouldn't have to do this normally the bolt should just thread out.)
I'm so frustrated I was thing of cutting the bolt with a saw zaw, dremmel, and grinder. I used ACETYLINE but that was more initially to get it cracked. I could try it again to see if it helps expand the metal enough to grip (assuming part of the bolt is stripped)
I really do not want to cut the bolt at as we just had to do that for a stripped LCA to Clevis bolt which again took me like 6 hours.
This has not been a fun project thus far. I could share more of my headache with the bushing but I'll spare the misery. I do appreciate the dialog because I'm scratching my head right now on the next step.
(This post was edited by MikeC81 on Aug 21, 2022, 12:16 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 21, 2022, 12:21 PM
Post #12 of 34
(2477 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Other trick AYOR also. Try tightening them till they bust? For other things that's the easy way if a blind back nut??
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 21, 2022, 1:53 PM
Post #13 of 34
(2472 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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I think it's time you get this to a competent shop before you make it much worse. The more you mess it up, the tougher it will be to resolve.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 21, 2022, 5:24 PM
Post #16 of 34
(2462 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Phones normally take extra large pictures and that may be the issue. See what the size of the image is.
You do have to create a folder to put them in. Each folder can hold 100 Images. I'm getting ready to create the 4th folder.
Here are the requirements
- You may upload up to 3 images at once.
- Each image cannot exceed 500 Kb in size.
- Image titles and descriptions are optional
- You may upload images of the following types: jpg, jpeg, gif, bmp, png, pdf.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 21, 2022, 5:25 PM
Post #17 of 34
(2459 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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Do you have any access to the nut in question?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 21, 2022, 5:49 PM
Post #21 of 34
(2444 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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I don't know if you have access to an Oxy-acetylene torch but that is the next step here.
Heat the nut directly red hot (and nothing else). The trick here is heat expands metal so you want to heat the nut only and not the bolt.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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MikeC81
User
Aug 21, 2022, 6:46 PM
Post #24 of 34
(2428 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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I have a feeling you both are under the impression the retention nut is still on but I was able to successfully get that out the bottom of the bolt I don't know what you mean by that but if the nut is no longer there, what is holding it? As for the heat technique, it's always heat the nut only. It creates space between the nut and the threads. If you heat the bolt you just defeat the purpose and soften the bolt which will cause it to break.
Thanks I appreciate the feedback. As for the question as to what's holding it.. good question. The thing should just slide right out. So my thought is something else needs threaded out although I know the inside of the bushings are non threaded.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 21, 2022, 6:56 PM
Post #25 of 34
(2421 views)
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Re: Bolt Turns But Does Not Progress
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If the nut is completely gone, then it's seized in the control arm. Does the bolt feel springy when you try to turn it?
If that is the case you should be able to pull the control arm right out with the bolt still in it. Use a pry bar under it.
That bolt isn't going to come out of that bushing so you're either going to get a new bushing and bolt or the whole control are and new bolt.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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