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How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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tremaine
Novice
Apr 16, 2009, 8:10 PM
Post #1 of 15
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How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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I have this car whihch I park for many weeks at a time. Unfortunately, I have to park it outside, and in the winter where it is parked, it snows heavily. When I go to try to drive it in the Spring, the rear drum type brakes can be locked up badly. This means the tire will not rotate, but will actually drag along the road until it pops and shreds, or until the brakes become unlocked.
A few years ago, when I had never ever heard of this problem before, I practically had a car accident, because my brakes were severly damaged by rust and I had no idea that they were. Just about $1,000 of work was needed then due to this problem.
I had a very good discussion with someone at an auto parts store today. He informed me that the reason I never heard of this problem during my first 20 years of driving is that car makers, up until roughly 2001, made the brake assemblies air tight (encased) After about 2001, they left them ventilated, to reduce the heat buildup. This was a blunder, because the rust problem is worse than the heat buildup problem in terms of the damage and danger it creates.
The problem is, if any moisture gets in, and then if the car is not driven for some number of weeks, the moisture will cause rust to develop, and then the rust will eventually glue the pads to the rotors. And then unless you get rid of the rust inside the brakes immediately, the rust can also get into the brake lines, and even cause your brake fluid to leak out. Unless you are aware of what is going on, your pads, rotors, and even calipers will be destroyed in a matter of a few dozen miles of driving.
It is insane to remain vulnerable to this happening again and again. So I thought of a possible solution, but I'm not sure if it will work. I am proposing to simply cover all four tires with spare tire covers when parking the car for weeks at a time.
At first I was thinking the problem is solved, but then I started to worry again. While you can completely cover the outside, there would still be exposure to the outside air on the inside of the tire/wheel, because obviously the wheel is attached to the axle, so you could not close the spare tire cover completely. (I think these covers close with bungee cords or draw strings.)There is so much snow and wind where I have to park this car, the snow actually accumulates underneath the car a little, so I am thinking a little moisture would still get in even with the covers on.
Does anyone agree or disagree that putting spare tire covers around all 4 tires of the parked car would prevent moisture from getting into the brake assembly?
But maybe if I wedged towels/cloths into the gap where the spare tire covers meet the wheel cylinder (or the axle?) I could close the gaps and stop all moisture from getting in?
Does anyone know, or have an opinion on this proposed solution to an expensive and dangerous problem?
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dmac0923
Enthusiast
Apr 16, 2009, 9:09 PM
Post #2 of 15
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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i dont know where you got your information about the brakes being airtight??????? drum brakes have gone un changed for decades. you cant have a rotating assembly be air tight.
what you can do to help avoid the pads rusting to the drum surface is not apply the parking brake while the vehicle is stored. this will keep the pads further away
if the car will be parked for very extended periods of time you can climb under the car and manually back the pads away from the drum with the manual star wheel adjuster
__________________________________________________
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee
2002 Ford Ranger
2004 Toyota Corolla
1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Apr 17, 2009, 5:37 AM
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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i dont know where you got your information about the brakes being airtight??????? drum brakes have gone un changed for decades. you cant have a rotating assembly be air tight.
I got that information from Advance Auto Parts. True, I don['t know anything specific about the guy who told me that. But why would he tell me that if it wasn't true? It doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone would make up out of thin air, or be misinformed about. Moreover, what is the explanation if not that? Why was I able to go 20 years without this ever happening, and without ever seeing or hearing anything about this big problem, and now all of a sudden it is happening on a regular basis?
Perhaps the drum brakes used to be closer to being airtight than they are now? And perhaps these days the drum brakes of some cars are less air tight than the drum brakes of other cars?
what you can do to help avoid the pads rusting to the drum surface is not apply the parking brake while the vehicle is stored. this will keep the pads further away
You know although I didn't have the parking brake applied during the whole time the car was parked, I think for some stupid reason I did apply it for a week or two or three during the 15 weeks it was parked. I did it without thinking, so it was one of those stupid things you can do if you are not thiniking carefully.
So if you park without ever using the parking brake, does this ensure the brakes will not lock up? Or only make it less likely?
if the car will be parked for very extended periods of time you can climb under the car and manually back the pads away from the drum with the manual star wheel adjuster
I don't know what that tool is, nor how to use it. I'll research it on the internet and see if I can find out about it.
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tremaine
Novice
Apr 17, 2009, 5:56 AM
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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That was me posting in the above post; I thought I was still logged in but I wasn't.
I'm still looking for opinions regarding whether it is possible to stop moisture from getting in by physically covering up the whole tire/wheel area with spare tire covers and/or with towels, sheets, and cloths.
As I was typing the last line, I just thought of a reason why that might not work. If just before you parked the car it was snowing or raining, it probably wouldn't work, because you would have some moisture in there as you were parking. But no big problem, right? You could simply park it only if the weather was dry and only after you had driven around and used the brakes for half an hour or more, which would eliminate all moisture.
Am I right?
(This post was edited by tremaine on Apr 17, 2009, 6:00 AM)
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Loren Champlain Sr
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/ Moderator
Apr 17, 2009, 2:30 PM
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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tremaine; >>I got that information from Advance Auto Parts. True, I don['t know anything specific about the guy who told me that. But why would he tell me that if it wasn't true? It doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone would make up out of thin air, or be misinformed about. Moreover, what is the explanation if not that? <<
Let me guess. Uh, he sells parts. Uh, he knows very little about what he's talking about? dmac was 100% correct. My first car was a 1940 Ford. I've been working on cars, myself, for 40 years. I've never seen, nor heard of, an air-tight braking system. Period. (ooops, I think submarines use them)
Now, for your problem....As dmac stated, don't set the parking brake when sitting for an extended time. When you apply it, the brake shoes are pressed against the brake drum, and yes, they will rust together; But, to the extreme you stated? Highly unlikely. Have you removed the brake drums and inspected? I'd suspect that there is something else going on here. Maybe, leaking wheel cylinders or axle seals. What year, make, model are we dealing with? My guess is an X body GM product. Probably wrong, but they were known for this problem.
Loren
SW Washington
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Apr 17, 2009, 3:33 PM
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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The Advance Auto Parts Supervisor or Manager would have no motivation to make that information up out of thin ar. Nor does it seem likely that someone would be misinformed to that extent regarding a relatively obscure topic.
And his information is not that drum brake assemblies were ever totally air tight, but that they became substantially less air tight roughly 10 years ago.
Moisture needs only very small gaps to get in, of course. It is plausible that the drum brake assembly air gaps on my car, while still very small, are bigger than the gaps used to be on most or all cars prior to about 2000.
In other words, I don't think he was talking about a big change in design, just a small one. From tiny gaps to less tiny gaps if you will. And that is all it might take to produce rust disasters.
A local mechanic today gave some indirect back-up to the informatjion from Advance. He sais that since it is relatively rare for brakes to badly lock up on parked cars even in a very snowy climate, that it is reasonable to suspect that, at the very least, my particular car (2002 Hyundai Accent) has a drum brake assembly that is more open to the air than that of other cars.
The brakes wwere working fine and normally prior to this lockup incident.
I think that the following combination caused the extremely severe lockup of the rear breaks:
1.Being an idiot and setting the parking brake. I will never ever use the parking brake again. I will be duck taping the lever in the down position so I don't apply it without thinking.
2. The sheer amount of snow that became encased on the rim and tire for 2 months plus, resulting of course in a much larger amount of moisture getting in thatn would be the case in a less snowy area.
3. My continual denial of the reality of this "problem out of nowhere" resulted in me not trying to move the car at all for 2 1/2 months, not even in place movement. Next winter, I will be at least twice a week moving the car forward and back about 10 feet several times, which will unlock the rear brakes before they become severely locked. This will be supplemented with efforts to close moisture access paths.
As for further damage, everything seems alright at this point. The local mechanic says that monitoring the brake fluid, listening for unusual noises, feeling for unusual vibrations in the brake pedal, and of course staying alert for any decline in braking capacity is just as good as having a formal inspection done. If anything seems wrong, then you need to get the inspection.
So as for determining how much damage besides two shredded tires I have at the moment, my strategy will be that, after the new tires are installed, I will be driving around in town (where there is very little traffic) daily for at least 10 days, and making the assessments described. If the slightest thing seems to be wrong, I will be forced to have the whole system inspected.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Apr 17, 2009, 3:40 PM
Post #7 of 15
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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>>Being an idiot and setting the parking brake. I will never ever use the parking brake again. I will be duck taping the lever in the down position so I don't apply it without thinking.<<
You are NOT an idiot. That's what the parking brake is there for, and should be able to use it as such. I still disagree with what the guy told you, but whatever works for you, that's what is important. You'd probably notice if you took a look, but the disc rotors will probably show surface rusting in just a few days of non-use. Not much you can do about it.
Good luck.
Loren
SW Washington
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tremaine
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Apr 17, 2009, 3:52 PM
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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That was me, tremaine, in the above post, not just a guest. I thought I was logged in.
As long as I have the opportunity, I'll add one more detail. The one thing that everyone seems amazed about in this latest lockup is how severe the lockup was. I think I have that explained.
The severity of the lockup would probably be due to the sheer amount of snow in January and February, and then the sheer amount of time the car sat motionless in March after the snow died down. Together with the gaps, that was the perfect set-up to maximize moisture and then rust inside the drum brakes. After it was drier, the rust hardened and in effect became an extremely strong glue binding the pads to the rotors.
It was as if I was doing a scientific experiment to see how badly I could lock the brakes up.
So at this time I doubt anything else is involved other than the rust acting as if it was a very strong glue and of course the stupid use of the emergency (parking) brake.
(This post was edited by tremaine on Apr 17, 2009, 3:58 PM)
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tremaine
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Apr 18, 2009, 1:45 AM
Post #9 of 15
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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I want to see whether I am understanding the results of my investigation or not:
1. TRUE OR FALSE:
If when you park you DON'T apply the emergency (also known as the parking) brake, there will always be clearance between the brake pads and whatever they rub against (the rotor,? the wheel?). In other words, the hydraulic brake system (operated with the brake pedal while driving) will always leave about the same amount of brake pad to wheel or rotor clearance when you park, due to spring action. Or is the amount of clearance random, actually?
2. TRUE OR FALSE:
If you park on a hill and you DO apply the parking brake, but you move the car at least, say, twice a week, you do NOT have to worry that rust will lock the pad to the rotor or wheel. In other words, rust would need more time than this to lock the brakes.
Thanks for all responses, above and below here.
(This post was edited by tremaine on Apr 18, 2009, 2:06 AM)
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tremaine
Novice
Apr 20, 2009, 11:39 AM
Post #10 of 15
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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I'm still looking forward to getting the two true/false questions answered. The guy down the street says both are true. Is he correct?
Sorry if these questions seem silly to you.
Regarding the first one, I guess it is pretty clear that the basic answer is true. But what about the rest of that question: is the brake pad clearance you get when you don't use the emergency brake when parking a set amount of clearance, or is it a random amount of clearance?
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tremaine
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Apr 20, 2009, 1:18 PM
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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The amount of time needed for the two brake lock-ups and for the investigation is now about 200 hours. The amount of money lost is at least $1,250. Not to mention that I at one point in 2005 came near to smashing into someone on the expressway.
I am not going to stop investigating until at the least I have the most likely cause(s) and the best solution(s) to prevent this ever happening again identified. There is no doubt that this is a relatively rare problem. Which means that it should not be that difficult to prevent this from happening.
So please someone would you answer the two questions just above? Thank you.
ps: A simpler and probably a better way to ask #2 is:
How often does a parked car whose emergency brake is NOT APPLIED have to be moved to avoid any chance for a brake lock-up?
(This post was edited by tremaine on Apr 20, 2009, 1:23 PM)
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Apr 20, 2009, 3:07 PM
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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tremaine; First, you mentioned that it had drum brakes in the rear. Now you mention disc brakes. Which does it have? The brake shoes should not be in contact with the brake drum unless 1)you apply the brakes, and 2)if the parking brake is applied. Disc brake pads are always in contact with the rotor. If these are, in fact, drum brakes in the rear, I would be highly suspect of some kind of lining contamination causing your problem, other than rust.
Loren
SW Washington
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Rick Dempsey
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Apr 23, 2009, 8:39 AM
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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You have been receiving good advice here. As for stopping the corrosion on the the brake system...near impossible. Lets look at the original problem..storage. You store your vehicle outdoors in inclemate weather conditions where temperatures fluctuate dramatically. The changes in temperature cause moisture to form everywhere and on everything. This is a simple fact. Now, in order to reduce the impact of this effect you can store your vehicle indoors. If the storage area in not heated the end result will be the same except the corrosion may be less sever and or take longer to form. Heat and ventilation is the key. Even at that the vehicle should be should be cycled once a week. Started, brought up to temp, engaged, and moved. I store my Jaguar XJS every year indoors unheated. Before I go on the road I perform a brake inspection EVERY YEAR to ensure the quality and effectiveness of the braking system. Failure to do so would constitute negligence on my part.
Your situation is typical of a pay me now or later scenario. Either way you'll pay. How much is up to you.
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Kay Sweaver
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May 2, 2009, 3:22 PM
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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Apologies for jumping in this thread but I seem to have found myself making the same mistake and have one rear wheel locked/frozen/rusted on my car. I'm wondering if anyone here knows the best way to get the wheel moving again while doing the least amount of damage to the break/tire.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 5, 2009, 12:36 PM
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Re: How to Stop Rust From Locking Brakes
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Kindly - start your own thread for the specific vehicle,
T
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