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monty101
User
Oct 5, 2014, 3:25 PM
Post #1 of 25
(3711 views)
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buick won't start
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My 1997 buick lesabre with a v6 turns over but won't start. It acts like there is no power to the fuel pump. It does not come on when you prime it or when you are trying to get it to start.
It did this last week and I replaced the relay and then it worked fine. Now it is doing it again.
This time I put a new fuel pump relay in it and it started doing the same thing. I put a new fuse in it and still does the same thing.
I ran a wire to the negative post of my battery to my voltage meter negative wire and attached the postive wire from the meter to the #2 trigger post of the relay and turned the switch on to prime it and it showed almost 12 volts of power. So I guess it must be the pump. Is there any other tests I should do?
I know there is a relay in the dash that keeps the car from starting if it isn't in park. I pulled it out and after I did that when you turn the key nothing happens so I put it back.
Is there another fuel pump fuse I am unaware of?
The fuel pump is four years old. It is an Airtech pump. I believe it has a lifetime warranty. If I have to replace it somehow I will have to drain the gas out. Since it is getting power at the relay I guess it must be the pump. I just filled it up to. Is there any way to siphon it out since I can't get the pump to pump it out.
(This post was edited by monty101 on Oct 5, 2014, 4:03 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 5, 2014, 3:51 PM
Post #2 of 25
(3704 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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Should we guess at the model and engine size?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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monty101
User
Oct 5, 2014, 4:06 PM
Post #3 of 25
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Re: buick won't start
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I revised my posting. I discovered I had checked power to the relay incorrectly and now after correcting my mistake it
appears to have power.
Its a lesabre with a v6. I need to know if your opinion is it needs a new fuel pump or not and if so how do I get the gas out of the tank. Its full.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 5, 2014, 5:11 PM
Post #4 of 25
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Re: buick won't start
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How could I have an opinion that it needs a fuel pump? Nobody has tested anything yet. Before any pump is changed you want to verify power and ground arriving at the pump. The power should be on a gray wire and the ground will be the larger of 2 black wires. The pump only powers for 2 seconds when the pump is first turned on so you will need a helper to operate the key.
You also want to be real careful jumping things at that relay. If you jump the wrong terminal your computer will be junk.
Also, please don't edit posts after they have been read. If you have new info to add, do it in a new post.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 5, 2014, 5:13 PM)
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monty101
User
Oct 5, 2014, 6:02 PM
Post #5 of 25
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Re: buick won't start
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Thanks for the instructions. Sorry my revision caused you problems. I was aware it might confuse you so
I did advise you of the changes in the reply. Trust me I will never revise a question again after someone has responded. I guess the revision on the forum is only to be used before people respond......
You did not advise me as to how to remove the 18 gallons of gas but like you said I need to first check the power at the tank.
I suspect it will be getting power and I will have to replace the pump. I was aware the power was the gray wire and the black is the ground and I did intend to check the power there too after i get the car
up on jack stands.
I don't do this for a living and I thought you might share what you have discovered
is the usual reason the pump does not come on. I guess it could be either the wires to the pump outside the
tank or wires inside or the pump itself. I have no idea what other problems could cause this but I suspect there
may be other reasons other than the three I have mentioned. I will see I guess.
I have been scolded before on this forum for having too detailed replys and before i get scolded again I know my reply is longer than it has to be. Since you are a expert and I am not I did want to clearly lay out what I intend to do so you will have a clear picture of how I will fix this Lesabre after receiving your advice....If you see any missteps in my plan of attack please advise me so i will not do anything wrong.
If its got power at the tank I will search no further and just replace
the pump.......The cheapest way is to just buy a new pump but i guess i will get the whole assembly from
rock auto. The Spectrum they sell is like the one in the tank and it only has a one year warranty. So, I guess
this one has outlived its normal life expectancy.
I am aware it has a siphon preventer in the neck so you can't siphon the gas out like you could 30 year ago. If you have a better method to get the gas out please advise me.
I went ahead and googled how to get the gas out. I'll will try to siphon the gas out after I disconnect the hose that connects the tank to the filler tube. I am aware that things could go wrong and the gas could dump all over the garage floor. So, I will be extremely careful and make sure there are no drops lights laying around before I unstrap the tank. I will put two floor jacks I have under it and get my wife under there with me to try to keep it on the jacks as I lower it.
(This post was edited by monty101 on Oct 5, 2014, 6:26 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 6, 2014, 3:50 AM
Post #7 of 25
(3668 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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Just notes on this: Fuel out.......... Most you can pump out thru filler neck. Have to use a pump with suction and I do that with an electric diaphragm fuel pump that doesn't care about running dry or you get better stuff. Have to have enough fuel storage too or another vehicle to transfer to. IT SHOULD GO WITHOUT SAYING THAT DEALING WITH FUEL AND DROPPING FUEL TANKS IS DANGEROUS!
RE: Voltage to the pump which works then wont. Not this model but in general with some especially GMs is connectors lacking grease over time just can't deliver proper power. Relay worked suggests you just boosted the power amps + voltage just enough for a while so think this could be the issue even more. Check plugs along the way as possible and renew grease with dialectic grease.
A maybe: You might get it to pump with a jump start from a running vehicle even if just sitting there you get higher voltage to dump fuel to fix this and just might have to,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 6, 2014, 2:17 PM
Post #8 of 25
(3655 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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You can't pump out through the filler neck if it has a rollover ball in it.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 6, 2014, 5:26 PM
Post #9 of 25
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Re: buick won't start
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I got this awful picture in my head of someone under a car with gas pouring out everywhere. They are laying in a puddle of gas and a shop light gets knocked off and falls in the puddle. Then the bulb breaks and you know what happens next.
If you do end up going after the pump with a full tank, just be careful. Have an extinguisher near and use common sense.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Oct 6, 2014, 5:27 PM)
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monty101
User
Oct 6, 2014, 5:31 PM
Post #10 of 25
(3648 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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Well I did check the gray wire at the connector on the tank. I connected it to the black wire with my voltage
regulator and it had almost 12 volts. I did not bare the wire between the connector and the tank. I just pulled
the plug apart and checked it by directly touching the voltage meter leads to the gray and black wires in the connector that snaps into the connector that comes from the tank. I hope this was not a mistake because I guess the connector itself might be bad. I did note it did not have any electrical grease on it.
I pulled the tank down in the back after I pulled the hose off the filler pipe. I thought I could just siphon the
gas but the ball is not in the filler pipe. It is in the hose where it connects to the tank. I could not get the hose off
where it slides onto the tank and I ended up draining some gas directly into a gas can under the car. I guess about a gallon went right into my eyes from the hoses when I dropped the back of the tank down. That was fun....Then with the hoses pulled off and pinched shut and the wires disconnected I finally let the tank slid out and fall on the floor. Then I drained the rest of the gas into three 5 gallon gas tanks. I only lost a couple gallons so I consider it a overall success.
I got a new fuel pump for $112 from Rock Auto. About $50 cheaper than the same pump from autozone. Plus I had an old credit that I took . I ended up just paying $95 for a spectrum pump. Hopefully after I install it my problems will be over.
If I had it to do over I would have bared the wire between the connector and the tank. I guess according to what
I am reading now there was a possibility the pump would have been ok if I had just put some electrical greese on
the connector. Oh well. live and learn and nobody got hurt. So I am happy. Since the pump was 4 years old it probably didn't have many more years left in it anyway. I definitely will put some electric greese on the connector before I put it back together.
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monty101
User
Oct 6, 2014, 9:45 PM
Post #12 of 25
(3639 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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Well since you brought it up I guess you are looking for an explanation.
A little gas in the face is not that bad. I learned to not be a whinner a long time ago.
My dad taught me that. I watched him cut his toe off with a pocket knife once. It had turned black
from poor circulation. After he did that he just folded the knife back up, put his boot back on and
went back to work. He was a mechanic. I Guess the mechanic I was raised by is a little different
form the guys you are referring to. Some say I am a lot like him. I know my son puts on blue rubber
gloves whenever he has to work on his car. He is one of the younger generation.....guess that is
what you usually deal with. Until he did that I had never seen anyone put on blue rubber gloves to
work on a car.....
When I got that tank out I was very happy because I was though and I could send the wife
back into the house. . I only had to tell her to shut up about 15 times. She has a question
about everything and she repeats stuff over and over and over. I'm a Indian and I do not like to
discuss everything I am doing when I am working. It causes me to loose my concentration.
So, yeah getting that gas in the face was nothing considering what I was dealing with......In the
big picture Just getting through and getting her to go back in the house is what I considered a success.
It's her car and until I get it going again she is going to be on my back day in day out.
You can't get a airtex for a 1997 lesabre from orielly, autozone or rockauto. All they sell is spectrum.
I don't know what the deal is. So, I got what I could get. I will say my buddy is a mechanic and he
said he told a customer to get him a fuel pump and to make sure it is not an airtex. The customer
brought him a spectrum and inside the box was an airtex. So, who knows what is going on. I was
wanting a airtex because I have had good luck with one that I put in my Sonoma and I thought it
had a lifetime guarantee but I could be wrong about that.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 6, 2014, 10:19 PM
Post #13 of 25
(3638 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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Kinda makes Lifetime warranties a waste of paper,
T
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monty101
User
Oct 7, 2014, 6:48 AM
Post #15 of 25
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Re: buick won't start
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I have to assume you aren't calling me a liar and just think I am uninformed or something. I really have no reason to lie about anything. All I can do when I am buying a part is go by what they advertise. If there is some other way of getting a airtex part from autozone other than buying what they advertise, I am unaware of it. Rockauto only sells Spectra too for a 1997 lesabre. I assume they do sell airtex but not for a 1997 buick lesabre:
Here's the tele no. you call yourself. phone number deleted. They told me that these are the only two they sell.
If you don't want to call. Here their on-line catalog. The pump and housing are the last two:D07N1H & D07P1H which are both made by Spectra and it clearly states they are spectra. No Airtex listed:
multiple links deleted
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 7, 2014, 8:09 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 7, 2014, 8:07 AM
Post #16 of 25
(3621 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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I don't need anyone's phone number. All I said is that I know for a fact that Autozone sells Airtex pumps and I even gave you a link to the Airtex pump for your car at autozone.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 7, 2014, 8:36 AM
Post #17 of 25
(3616 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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It's listed as Airtex at the zone's site using my own zip code may matter? Use another if you can't make it work but they ship anywhere so don't understand why anything but perhaps prices change by some locations.
Check at the counter if you go get it that it's a match for what you want,
T
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monty101
User
Oct 7, 2014, 10:48 AM
Post #18 of 25
(3607 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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You are right you can get the E3290 for a 1997 Lesabre
I did not want just the pump I wanted the whole assembly.
E3290 is listed on the catalog in the links you deleted.
It is only the pump. I always buy the whole assembly
and they only sell a spectra for a 1997 lesabre. I have
purchased the pump alone before and on some vehicles
I find it almost impossible to disassemble it to install
the new pump.
I do not want to try to install the pump
because I have no idea if the housing will allow you to
disassemble it and install the pump and I do not know what
the housing itself is in. Like I said I bought the whole assembly
for 95 bucks and this airtex pump is about 80 if you include tax. Big deal.
If Airtex offered the whole assembly then I might
have bought it if I could have got it for 95 bucks.
For some reason nobody sells it. I don't know why. Autozone once
told me that they did not recommend Airtex because they
have lots of them come back. ...So, I suspect autozone
has had a lot of complaints about it not working right. I do know
my mechanic friend who has been installing fuel pumps for 40 years
prefers to not install them. His opinion is not the same as yours
So, as far as I am concerned it's not actually a fact
that a airtex pump is better than other pumps because some
reputatable mechanics have a different opinion than you do.
Believe me Hammertime I do respect your preferences. they are yours
but they are yours alone and they differ from other techs.
You can close this, delete it or do whatever you do when you
try to piss off people.
Next next time let some other tech respond if I am still allowed to use this forum.
I could care less if you delete my ability to log on. Your comments are way
too rude, opinionated and offensive. Nobody who uses this forum should be exposed
to you testy comments.
You seem to just want to argue about everything. Go
bother someone else. I am tired of been preached to and scolded by a auto tech.
Tom and Descretesignals are great techs and they have never given me bad advice.
They are never rude. From now I would appreciate you just
letting them answer any forum question I have.
Here is the link to that part no. It is just
the pump:
Airtex/Fuel Pump (1 review)   Part Number: E3290 Alternate Part Number: P152 Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Notes: *** Caution *** a fuel pump is more likely to fail if installed without a new strainer and filter. warranty valid only if strainer is replaced at the same time as the fuel pump. for installation tips or questions, please call: **** 1-800-424-7839 **** Add More Items to Compare
Price: $72.99 Store Pick Up Order in Store Ship To Home Special Order
(This post was edited by monty101 on Oct 7, 2014, 11:27 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 7, 2014, 10:56 AM
Post #19 of 25
(3605 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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The design you have is nearly always sold separately. It's not like the newer ones with plastic housing. Yours is basically just pipes and a gauge sender.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 7, 2014, 12:11 PM
Post #20 of 25
(3601 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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Calm down everyone, it's just a car. Monty - if you know you pump is bad and guaranteed by Airtex now hard to find like the exact one you have hit them up at their own site and b*tch about the warranty!
Parts and preferences: Hey - I swear and also know good names get sold for the name and quite making parts at all. Then what?
Took some time but did get a total refund + my time for parts that plain didn't work and the time to find out the absolutely couldn't from Dana Corporation by chance. No legal bull just got just what I asked for $$ and bought another brand that was perfect. Admit had a lot of help from pro parts folks long time.
Have you plain checked other sources than the common outlets? Napa by chance and call one don't mess with their site. I get more wild odd stuff thru them they find someplace but do wait a bit sometimes.
I do agree whole unit is the better way to go. Not too many under my belt but did another type vehicle just pump, worked but wasn't pleased to solder crap that would be inside tank when done!
I'm also finding brick and mortar stores vs web are getting wise and price matching if you ask! No harm in asking,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 7, 2014, 12:55 PM
Post #21 of 25
(3596 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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I really don't think you are going to find much in a complete unit for this car. It's the old style and was always sold as a pump only. Even the dealer sold them as 3 pieces, the pump, the gauge sender and the piping framework.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 7, 2014, 12:56 PM)
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monty101
User
Oct 7, 2014, 3:34 PM
Post #22 of 25
(3590 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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Thanks Tom. I'm glad you also feel getting a complete unit is the preferred way
to fix a fuel pump if it quits working....
I did call GM because there are two Spectra Pumps available for my Lesabre. It
depends on which harness you have.
Rock Auto told me that if the harness code was not on the old unit that
I would have to call GM to find out what the code on my lesabre. So, I called
GM.
GM could not tell me what wiring harness I had but they did tell me a new unit
for a car with my vin number cost 172 bucks. They said it was mad by AcDelco.
Lucky for me I double checked the old harness again and I found the code on the harness.
So I ordered one from Rock Auto and ended up only paying 95 bucks I could not have made too big a mistake.
I know the one that I will take out is not original equipment. I vaguely remember getting it
at Autozone because I remember them telling me 4 years ago it was a Spectra. They
only have a one year warranty.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 7, 2014, 7:56 PM
Post #23 of 25
(3587 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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?, OK - Seems you found what you want and no old warranty would be valid now so cross fingers and hope this one lasts. Four years is or isn't a lot depending.
Whole units for some reason for GMs (and you do pay more) seem to have no comebacks from GM by GM. I didn't know that a 1997 still had different harness problems or types vs just a couple model years older.
Hard to do sometimes but keep your paperwork for warranty so no guessing if this happens again. Said somewhere that both not many have truly gone bad on cars known to not run low or out of fuel a lot. I know it's hard but really avoid running below 1/4 tank of fuel seems to wildly help.
So, it's on order and would like to hear for a follow up that this is all fixed and over with.
Done with all this for a long time now and glad actually. Still have to deal with crap now and then, more and more with lots of help from friends with shop for that extra hand and fuel tanks are a pest all alone like several things on vehicles.
Other about grease for connections. I really like pure silicone clear grease both for dialectic reasons and it just doesn't wash out, dry out plus tolerates lots of heat and is rubber friendly for brake things and sold for that as well by Dynatex. It's freaking expen$ive up the kazoo but works so worth it. I have to hunt for it as it doesn't sell well for the price of it,
T
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monty101
User
Oct 8, 2014, 2:28 PM
Post #24 of 25
(3572 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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Well Tom I guess I didn't read your post about the grease soon enough before I ordered the pump.
I got the new unit in today.
I took the old one out and installed the new unit.
Then I bared the hot wire and ground on the old unit and hooked them up to a battery.
Just like you said it was a bad dry connection that was causing my problem. The pump came on instantly
after I hooked the hot wire to the battery and touched the other wire to the battery negative post..
I'll just go ahead and get some grease for the connection. I'll install the new pump and keep
the old pump because I have two other lesabres that it will fit on. Thanks for the help. If you had
not told me to put the grease on the connection I would have just put it back together and thrown
away a pump that I now know is a good one and I can now still use it on on one of my other Lesabres.
I guess I screwed up when I checked the connector with my voltage meter that snaps to the gas tank
connector and since it showed current I just assumed it was the pump because I was getting juice all the way up to the connector that plugs into the gas tank connector. I know better than to do that again. I bet a lot
of guys have thrown away perfectly good pumps on the GM vehicles.....
Again thanks for you insight. Knowing what is usually the problem is very helpful because lots of guys like me will misdiagnose what is causing the problem because we don't know how to diagnose the problem. We haven't messed with this stuff as much as you have.
If I had just read you post before I ordered this pump I would have got some grease and that probably
would have fixed the problem. I did originally suspect it was a electrical problem and I did initially check out the fuse and
the relay. I just never thought about the connection needing grease. Not enough gray in my beard....
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 8, 2014, 2:53 PM
Post #25 of 25
(3571 views)
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Re: buick won't start
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Well at least it's working now. I live for that stuff and no kidding keep it in can tops with a flux brush all over the place even one right now on kitchen counter. Specific stuff as said and expensive but truly works. Anything electric or things not tolerant of oil products it's perfect for prevention more than the cure.
Some connections anywhere you may have to replace, squeeze on them or twist a spade type a tad then do the grease many will work again.
I guess I think of this type issue because I live in rust city from road salts - the ever loving worst place on earth for rust I swear and nothing lasts for crap exposed and about dunked in that and add hot and cold it's amazing anything works for long.
Glad you are all set. I'll leave this unlocked as it is now solved for any other comments and then close it out as solved or another will.
Good luck with it lasting, Tom
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