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engine junk in under 2 minuets??
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Anonymous Poster
Nov 21, 2008, 7:33 AM
Post #1 of 11
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engine junk in under 2 minuets??
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2001 Suzuki grand vatara 97,000 mi
checked oil last week cuz heard noise sounded like lifter rap.. oil fine, later that day oil light comes on for first time ever ( i bought the car with 18000 mi) i tried checking oil when car was cold.. still fine.. oil light continues to come on.. i should mention that i do not drive it much.. i work on ebay and the post office and grocery store are within a mile of the house.. only go out about 3 x a week for the trip to the post and maybe a market stop on the way home.. this has been the usual for about 4 years now, once every few months there is something that takes me to the next town or a bit longer driving around town here but the car sits a lot..
anyway on tuesday i was bringing child to dentist in next town and the car just stalled and died.. called AAA.. while waiting i opened the hood and found the green build up on the battery terminal, i scraped that off and started the car right up.. AAA guy came along and insisted i needed a new battery, i told him that i had no battery troubles at all b4 and it turns right over and starts first time.. nope .. lady take a battery or just sit here.. not sure if car will get me home, i took the $125 battery and drove home..
2 days later, the next time i used the car.. which was yesterday, i'm trying to get to the same dentist, car does the same thing.. stalls and dies.. this time AAA tows it to a shop, the one that the tow truck driver recommends.. when i told him where i wanted to bring it he said that he knew a better priced place which does really good work..
get the car there .. the repair guy goes over and turns the key and hears the click click and then tells me i need a new engine (when i first broke down i didn't get anything when i turned the key, opened the hood and wiggled the post battery connection and then started getting the click ..
so less than 5 minuets in the door.. no attempt to put jumpers on the battery.. just nope your engine is shot.. "we do a lot of these" the guy tells me.. i'm thinking yea you do cuz you don't do anything to try to fix the car.. i went over to ask the tow driver if he was sure about the place cuz they had said the engine was junk before he could even get his flat bed tilted back up .. he just went over and told the guy to look around to see if it could be anything else.. ( on the side of the road the tow driver had looked and said it looked like there was a leaky hose which was spraying oil on the belt so that the battery wasn't getting charged, repair guy said that was a fuel line when i mentioned that to him) he said that there is sludge in the engine.. but maybe its a fuel pump or ac condenser which was frozen up and that's stopping the engine from turning.. the repair guy put it up on a lift and tried to turn a bolt on the front of the engine.. or said he was trying.. i asked him if turning the fan would tell but he said no that there are gears that make the fan move anyway..
i just spoke with the AAA guy's manager, he is going to test my original battery and if its really still good then he will return it for a refund.. but when i told him that they said the engine is no good he was all about yea its likely that i ran the car without oil and that would kill the car in a mile or so..
i called the shop this morning to tell them not to start tearing down the engine for diagnosis and the manager tells me that they didn't do anything to the engine, he just knows from experiance that he is 99% sure the engine is junk so he is going to call around for prices for me.. if i just want the thing out of there i owe them $75 for looking at it.... tow truck driver told me that the father left the buisness to the son's..
so if someone here can tell me if i just fell for one of those guys who says "my friend can fix it" who gets a kick back from friend from every stranded girl that he comes across.. (only other customer i saw was a girl about to leave, like 2 other cars in the shop which has room for a few more) or should i be just trying to put some jumpers on this and see if it will start or do i really have a junk engine i would really appreciate it..
thank you much
lin
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dmac0923
Enthusiast
Nov 21, 2008, 7:58 AM
Post #2 of 11
(1529 views)
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Re: engine junk in under 2 minuets??
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something def sounds a little fishy here. If the engine is seized its..........well pretty much fuzed together. you wouldnt hear clicking noises for sure. you might get a grind out of the starter bendix since the flywheel wouldnt move.
i would have it towed to another shop.
unfortunately in your story you didnt get to specific about the cars symptoms. are there any check engine lights on?
i would be most likely to point to the charging system.
__________________________________________________
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee
2002 Ford Ranger
2004 Toyota Corolla
1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1
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Anonymous Poster
Nov 21, 2008, 10:47 AM
Post #3 of 11
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hello dmac,
thank you for helping.. please tell me what other information you need?
as i said the only indication that i had a problem was the oil light started coming on right after i checked the oil.. i thought the two were some how related..
the oil light went off then came on again, i only drove the car a total of 4 times a with the light on .. one of them being the trip home from the gas station where i checked it initially, and two of them being the occasions where i broke down... after the first one, i drove one of my children's friends home, about 5 or 6 miles round trip.. i also kept an eye on the temp gauge it was not running warm at all..
now i just had the battery guy call to tell me that he is sure that my battery is no good, that it had a date of april, first he said '05 then changed to '04 and so it was too old.. when i pointed out that he had just sold me a battery with a 6 YEAR warrante on it so it didn't seem to me that 4 years even was too long.. but he said he just gives that long a warrante because he wants his customers "to feel like they will not have to change their battery every two years".. he also told me that 25% of his 350 battery calls a WEEK are from people who just pull into the gas station for gas and the car will not start because the battery just dies.. that these batteries don't give any indication that they are about to become useless.
the repair man at the shop had a real hard time to explain to me how he knew that the trouble wasn't just the voltage regulator.. he said that part doesn't go before the alternator goes..
the battery guy and the repair guy have spoken with each other and decided that i coincidentally had 2 different problems occur at the same time
but you don't think its the engine right? the repair guy has told me that the only replacement engine he could find has 100 k miles on it and it costs almost 3 grand.. when i told him that i saw one on ebay for 1200 he said that if i provided the engine and all the parts then he would replace it for 700 but if the engine turned out to be junk that he was not going to put in another one free or anything.. which makes sense.
my question now .. is there anything that they can do to it at the shop to make sure it is seized up? because i told him, quite truthfully that i can not afford anything like that for several months at best.. so he said i should have it towed home and wait till i have the money saved up..
thank you again .. i wish i could be more succinct with my explanation but i am trying to give as much information as i can...
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Anonymous Poster
Nov 21, 2008, 1:11 PM
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thanks for the info.. just got back from arranging the tow to my house.
i don't have spark plug socket.. i am really bad at that stuff... lawn mower has been waiting for a spark plug to appear for almost 2 years now..
i thought that the first thing i would do is try to jump it..
i can't hurt it doing that right?
but i did see that there is a lot of sludge stuff in the engine where the oil goes in..
i get oil changed 2x year.. i drive less than 3 thousand miles in a year but i have it changed anyway
the good news is that i only go to the gas station every 7 weeks or so..
:)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 21, 2008, 5:32 PM
Post #6 of 11
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Arggh! To answer the subject line question - YES - an engine can be rendered junk in a couple minutes with total lack of lubrication. Full oil is not indicative of whether it can make oil pressure which is what that warning was about - not the level.
You drove it no doubt with a RED oil warning. Just glance at your owner's manual and see what it says about that light! Game over for that engine usually. There are warning light that tell you to "check oil" but those should be amber lights suggesting it's low which you said you found it wasn't so it was a true oil pressure problem.
Sure sounds like you had lousy luck with the tow driver and a shop so far and some slow advice on what shouldn't be that hard to determine. If it won't turn by the crankshaft bolt it's big trouble no matter how you slice it.
Get some competent help and pick the best way out of this for you. Used engine, new major engine parts or bail out of this car now and cut your losses is my suggestion,
T
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Loren Champlain Sr
Veteran
/ Moderator
Nov 21, 2008, 5:58 PM
Post #7 of 11
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All of the above advise is correct. Get it out of that shop NOW. Sounds like a part out of "Deliverance". I would definitely call AAA and let them know about your experience.And, to take you to a different shop than what you requested? For the tow driver to force you into buying a battery is unbelievable. Probably just needed the connections thouroughly cleaned. An alternator can't charge a battery if the connections aren't good. The oil thing; Sounds like you lost oil pressure. In the future, I'd recommend changing the oil and filter every three months. Short drives are very detrimental...The engine needs to get HOT to burn off contaminates in the crankcase. Short drives don't accomplish that. Good luck.
Loren
SW Washington
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Anonymous Poster
Nov 21, 2008, 7:29 PM
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hello tom,
thanks for the info.. i don't get any colorful light warning system .. light just came on.. like i said it went off after a mile or so but came back on again.. always orange color.. nothing red, and the temp stayed where it usually does, below center, i watched for that one.
its a great little car, all paid for, i don't think i could get another car like this one for the price of the engine.... i hope its not bad but i got it here just b4 dark so didn't fuss with it.
i see a used engine on ebay for about $1200, i will have to save up but i would rather save then be in debt .. do you think that ebay is a reasonable place to get a used engine or not? i don't see a lot of these cars sold second hand, i haven't looked too far for engine since this whole thing has cost me $200 and i have ended with a still broken car :(
thanks again for your help though .. i really appreciate it !
lin
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Anonymous Poster
Nov 21, 2008, 7:57 PM
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hi landd,
i spoke with AAA about this, they had the man who runs the battery area call me, they are not going to do anything..
tonight heard from a neighbor how AAA battery guy attached the cables backwards on that man's dad's car and killed it off.. i am beginning to suspect that the retirees who are not working in the super stores are at the AAA service centers..
i know the oil is supposed to be like blood.. maybe cuz my blood seems just fine i keep thinking that the car's oil is alright as long as it is full, i do put in some marvelious mystery oil once in a while..
i thought they were going to make a car for women that spoke to us like that navigation system does.. "hurry up and fix something will ya?" there is a nice product line..
i know that they like to be driven, i just live near everything..
if stacking 14 boxes on top of a bike wouldn't be a hazard to the general population i would just take that to the post office
i have a cruiser that i got at auction from the local police for my daughter.. great car for teen, built to crash, mandatory maintenance work, lousy on gas so they don't drive all over the place, and in traffic everyone gets off the cell phones and sits up ..
so now i guess having the thing sit while i save up some money will not hurt it.. that is if it is really gone.. like i said i will try the jumpers tomorrow..
i think that the original problem was stuff built up on the battery, and since i got nothing when i stopped on the second break down until i wiggled the connections, after which i got the click, then i might have something wrong like the belt slipping from all the oil which seems to have sprayed all over the front of the engine.. which i don't know where that came from but i have lots of spots on the driveway..
that's probably important too huh..?
if the engine seized wouldn't it make some noise? neighbor said to try to put it in drive or reverse tomorrow and see if i can push the car around.. he seemed to think that if it was a frozen engine that the car would not move.. that makes sense unless the car only uses the wheels to move...
you know Ford's estate isn't far from here, maybe i could get one of those cars..
are the electric cars going to need oil? i hear a lot about those coming out soon.
but thank you again for your help, i will let you guys know if it moves or jumps tomorrow..
have a great night :)
lin
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 21, 2008, 8:51 PM
Post #10 of 11
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lin,
Just some notes on this mess:
I don't think you were properly advised or treated by the first responders when you broke down. AAA has always proven to me to be a responsible organization. I'm a member myself if for no more than discounted rates on car insurance and other things it's worth it.
Call them with your story and see if they can help you or perhaps reimburse some money. I'm not there but it sure seems like you got sold a battery real quick when that could have been known that it wouldn't fix all the troubles even if you needed a new battery.
Oil warnings of any type: Oil is the lifeblood of an engine. Engines can survive overheats, bad batteries, alternators - all sorts of troubles but metal to metal operation caused by lack of oil lubrication means very serious trouble and quickly. Most of the time oil warning lights would also mean low oil level but don't confuse that. I don't know exactly what set up or colors are used for this car but near universally RED means action needed right away and amber warning mean ASAP or soon. Some vehicles have a "low oil" or "check oil" suggestion light which means check the level real soon but not meaning impending doom for the engine.
Know that oil in an engine is actually preventing actual metal to metal contact such that all those fast moving parts are riding on a film of oil. When that ceases the metal touches metal in assorted areas, ---- bearings, piston to cylinder walls and more and can VERY quickly heat up from friction and weld itself or seizes up. In rare cases some can be freed up and run again - it'a a maybe that needs to be determined.
I'd really like to see you seek out a professional opinion on what is best for this. If it seized then make sure it really did - then find out from local salvage yards what a guaranteed used engine costs and ask them who installs their engines. When an engine does seize from lack of lubrication it picks on what I'll call the lower end and sometimes a "short block" or a "long block" would be advised as the best fix. Those should be available new or rebuilt and priced accordingly.
Ebay may have the prices but how do you know what you are getting and what recourse do you have if an engine bought on line blows up right away? It scares me to use that for this problem. Your call - you may know better about that part. Local to me are a couple good salvage yards that check engines on their incoming cars while they can still run them in a wrecked car like from a collision which kind of proves it was running when totalled for parts.
Wish you luck. Certainly it's no fun right now,
T
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Anonymous Poster
Nov 23, 2008, 8:34 PM
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hello tom,
just an update, Saturday a girlfriends hubby took a look and found the belt off and the alternator really loose.. i personally think that they did that at the garage since i think i had seen the belt on before, i have a feeling they didn't want me to just go home and start it up.
i am not sure about the loose part, and i don't know what else they could have done to disable the car, after talking to you guys i got the idea that i was in with a really unscrupulous bunch there....
he put the belt on and we put some jumpers on the car but couldn't get it to start.. we only let them charge for about 4 or 5 minuets, i don't know if that is enough, and it seemed that there was not a really good connection..
but there is something going on with the oil spraying on the engine, though he said it didn't look like a really major thing ..
my helpful friends have a shop that they use and are very happy with so i will likely go there .. need to get some money together first.. child home from college for holiday kills the bank account quickly
like i said i haven't had a light go on in the 7 years i have had the car.. and the fact that it went on right after i changed the oil made me think those two events were related, apparently the car was really trying to tell me something, but the odds of it developing an oil problem moments after i checked the oil seemed slim.. but i am sure that stranger things have happened..
as for AAA, i was thinking that it was a good thing to have, but when i spoke with them they just referred me to the battery guy .. i will give them a call back and speak to them again but if there was like a broken oil pump or bad starter/ alternator or something .. are they supposed to be able to tell that on the side of the road..? i am not sure what to expect from them, i didn't expect to get what i got..
if the guy had said to me, lady your battery is fine because you just started the car up, but if you want to have me follow you to a shop or be towed to a shop so that you can find out what is wrong and not be stranded on the side of the road again the very next time you try to go somewhere .. well that would have actually been helpful..
the way i am looking at this right now, i paid out $200, i got my car towed home.. in between the start and the end of that i just got picked on by mean guy's..
i tend to work into the wee hours of the morning, i once booked a flight at about 3:30 in the morning and the lady who was helping me must have been bored out of her mind because she kept"trying one more thing" to see if she could get me a lower fare, and i got a pretty good deal; maybe if i call in the middle of the night i will get someone who has the time to listen.. they will likely need a supervisor or someone who works the day job to make any money decisions
if you can think of anything else i should look for that the shop guys might have done to make sure it looks like i have a seized engine i would appreciate knowing that.. i looked around quick to see if it looked like any major bolts had been removed and put back . i didn't see anything like that.. but i don't know what or where to look really..
thank you again.. i greatly appreciate your help, everyone's help.. if i have to have a broken car, at least i finally got some nice people to help me with it.. that's the best thing..
have a great night :)
lin
p.s. i am going to save the posts so short and long block type stuff makes sense to me when i go to get it fixed for real..
:)
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