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54Rich
New User
Jul 21, 2008, 7:22 AM
Post #1 of 8
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87 Regal AC Issues
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I have a 87 Regal that had a bad compressor when I got it. The line was broken and open to air for who knows how long. Anyhow, I received a good used compressor and installed it, replace the drier, the orifice, added oil. Pulled a vacuum and it held for 24 hours. Used 134R and it took about 4-12oz cans. Outside air was about 94 and the center AC duct was about 50. Low side around 50 psi, which seemd OK with the outside air temp.
Lasted one day and then found a puddle of oil under the compressor. You could see it bubble out from around the compressor housing and of course the low side switch would not allow the comprssor to kick on.
So the person I got the compressor from, got me another that came off a working car. I installed it, vacuum it down and again it held, charged it and it worked fine, for a day! Again, I can see where it's leaking, same spot as the first one, right around the compressor housing.
So my question is, do you think that I'm just getting compressors with bad seals or could I have another problem that's taking them out? This is getting expensive and frustrating! I don't have a problem buying a new one, but don't want to ruin a new one.
Thanks,
Rich
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 21, 2008, 8:23 AM
Post #2 of 8
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Re: 87 Regal AC Issues
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You might be choking the hell out of it with oil and refrigerant or bad luck with used parts.
How much and what type of oil did you use?
New system requirements when all was OE was......
52 ounces r-12
8 ounces of mineral oil
When using 134a you need oil compatible with 134a like ester or a PAG - GM uses 150 mostly. The Ester will cooperate with left over mineral but PAGs won't.
Shaft seals on compressors are a weak link. If you go used again you want one that's dry as a chip at the hub of it or get another,
T
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54Rich
New User
Jul 21, 2008, 9:35 AM
Post #3 of 8
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Re: 87 Regal AC Issues
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Thanks for the response. I used the PAG oil, 2 oz in the compressor and 4 oz in the drier. However, I'm sure that all the old wasn't removed first? So even though I'm good on the low side, I'm thinking that the high side is well, too high?
So say that I want to start over, how do I flush the system and rid it of all the oil? Do I open it up and blow it all out?
Thanks
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 21, 2008, 9:58 AM
Post #4 of 8
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Re: 87 Regal AC Issues
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Tools and Equipment > http://www.acsource.com
A/C parts > http://www.acsource.net
There's a plug for a place I work at for flush kits if you want to do yourself.
PAG shouldn't be used with remaining mineral. There are oils that are universal called Polymax or just use Ester and keep come count of how much is in it.
With conversions know that some will be at peak performance at as low as 65% of the OE suggested charge. You simply have to have too much in there stressing the thing and performance suffers with overcharge - unique exact amount for each car when older especially so you watch pressures.
The compressor is toast again as I think you know. If you just blow oil of of everthing you can, dump oil out of new, used or rebuilt compressors and get an ideal of what to add for oil amount next time. PAG stinks IMO for older cars unless all parts are new I just don't think it's the best product. Ester seems to help with non barrier hoses which you may still have also. PAG is water(moisture in air if any allowed in) absorbing and when it does is makes an acidic oil the can damage parts early - not right away but who needs that?
You can't clean up the accumulator drier - it's like an oil filter - you just replace those as they absorb some oil and whatever moisture themselves and also act as kind of a filter.
How expensive have you found a new compressor that it's worth whatever savings is already lost trying with used ones?
The exact charge weight is critical and this one with a whopping 52 oz OE capacity would tolerate more deviation but 134a doesn't like being off much as R-12 would tolerate a wider range.
So it seems like you are up to removing as much oil as possible now, another compressor and accumlator, O tube and try again. I really think you'll have better luck with Ester oil and don't use refrigerants with anything but pure product in them. Many come with sealers and conditioners etc that's just junk to mess things up and it's messed up enough now,
So check out flush kits or fake it with lacquer thinner and copious air blowing thru parts till clean and dry and start over.....
T
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54Rich
New User
Jul 21, 2008, 10:25 AM
Post #5 of 8
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Re: 87 Regal AC Issues
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Thanks, diving in. The compressor is pricey around $225.00 which is why the $50.00 seemed like a good deal. The car is a vin code 7 or Turbo car so it's an odd one.
So, I'll get this cleaned and start again. Do I add the oil to both the compressor and the drier? The compressor I used stated 6 oz of oil.
Again, Thanks
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 21, 2008, 12:26 PM
Post #6 of 8
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Re: 87 Regal AC Issues
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 Smile friend - some shops get $200 to diagnose what's wrong! Your compressor is cheap!
If you can still swap out for yet another used one dump out the oil that does stay in the compressor and measure it. Don't use that again.
If you want to try again at the least expense you need to use ester but I'd like to see some get out of this thing as I don't nor you have a clue how much is in there. A marking on compressor saying 6oz is misleading as the whole system only hold perhaps 8oz. I'd be shocked if you got more than a tidbit out of the compressor as many it doesn't settle there. This is wild guessing now without a total redo from known zero.
Too much oil will first show as poor performance or reduced performance up to "hydraulic lock" of compressor trying to compress a liquid which it can't. When a compressor tries to compress a liquid usually it would stall and the belt would squeel over the locked compressor but it could destroy it right then and there.
When adding oil you do put some in accumulator and hose up stream of compressor and some in low port of compressor and spin it thru before the engine gets it's first shot at it with full force.
Again - this oil thing is tricky. If you want to try again, get as much oil out as you can blowing it thru parts with compressed air. Accumulator won't give back what is in it - some stays.
Just tell me now for the next suggestion how much oil with all these compressors you've already put it as I may insist on flushing it all out if that full.
I'd like to see you get a lot out and put back 4oz of Ester and it should fly. Somehow you'll need the ester to move with whatever mineral is still in there and it flows with 134a as mineral doesn't so well.
FYI: The whole oil thing is it's circulating like a fog thru the system when running to lube the compressor . Nothing else needs oil but it goes the full loop and when you shut down it just settles where it will in any of the parts at the low spots as you would expect. They try to list out how much each component if replaced separately should require but it's a guessing game. A large capacity system like this probably would handle 4 oz over the OE spec but not much more or it's trouble!
What do you want to do?
T
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54Rich
New User
Jul 21, 2008, 1:12 PM
Post #7 of 8
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Re: 87 Regal AC Issues
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Since it's a PITA to remove a compressor and since I have to because it leaks, I want to do this only once more. I'm going to open it up and clean out all I can. I have no idea other than what I put in, who else tried and what they did. Also, the system was open for a long time (Broken hose at the compressor) so there might be some dirt that comes with it.
When this is all done with a new drier, orifice, and compressor, then going to add 8 oz of Ester oil (6 in the drier and 2 oz in the compressor?) Spin the new compressor by hand, vacuum it down and ensure that it holds a vacuum. Jump teh low pressure switch and add the 134 to the system. Seems general comments on these cars has been aprox 4-12 oz cans, but will watch the low side.
When this thing worked it did work well, just not for long.
Again,
Thanks,
Rich
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 21, 2008, 5:02 PM
Post #8 of 8
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Re: 87 Regal AC Issues
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You are right - you've had enough practice with the compressor's removal deal. Spread the oil around a bit more. Couple on hose on high side won't hurt and less in the new accumulator.
This is a 52 oz system from new. I've never seen a percentage as high as 48ozs would be, be good for it - never! Start with 70% = three 12oz cans and let it be a whole day there before adding more. More is not better - right is better
Take the pressures. Estimate at 80F day ---- 35L 220H @ 1,200 RPM as your fan probably isn't so great and if original condenser high side would run a bit higher. When you see 2.5 times the temp in F in PSI on high side that's enough! It may work with more but it'll waste gasoline and not cool any better for working so much harder,
T
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