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1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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toolman0007
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Mar 21, 2013, 7:05 PM
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1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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I have an 2001 Chevy express 3500 7.5 350 rated ton and a half 132000 miles has an 8'by14' cargo box on it. just went through the rear brakes due to leaky bearing seal. drained the diff new shoes and such. filled the diff with the recomended amount of gear oil. to the point it ran out the fill hole. it sat for two days before driving it and before doing so I checked the rear diff level again. again I still had a bit coming out the fill hole. now after about 30-40 miles I have a toasted outer bearing on the driver side. and almost lost the tires and axle. no sign of gear oil at all on axle shaft or any where on the driver side. about 4 months ago had the same problem with my 1974 k20 1 ton pickup. not one drop of gear oil went to the bearing after a redo it's fine. I have a friend local who knows a bit more than me and between the two of us we can not pin down the problem as to why this has happened on two accusations both on the driver side only. the right side is wet with gear oil and things are fine. like before we looked for some sort of obstruction down the axle tube but were unable to find any thing wrong. has anyone else heard of such issues and what can be done to prevent it
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Discretesignals
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Mar 22, 2013, 5:56 PM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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Did you lubricate the bearings with a light coat of wheel bearing grease before you installed them. If you install them dry and expect gear oil to get down the tube to lube them while taking it down a straight road, it ain't going to happen.
The best way, besides doing figure eights after install, is to jack each side up, so you tilt the axle to get the fluid to go down the tube and into the hub. Then you can drive away and not have to worry about burning them up.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 22, 2013, 6:02 PM)
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toolman0007
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Mar 22, 2013, 8:40 PM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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yes they were coated with grease when installed. the left inside one still had what I had put on it when installed. the outer there was nothing left of it, even the rollers that were on the side of the road were dry. and not one drop came out of the tube while it was sitting on the side of the road, with the axle drum and tires sitting off the brake shoes once the truck was back at the house and I got things apart. the entire left tube was dry, not one sign that gear oil even went down the tube . the right side bearings were well wet with gear oil . the fill hole on the diff is 1/2 of an inch above the bottom of the axle tubes. where it sits in the drive way is level. it sat for two days before driving it. by all rights the gear lube should have made its way down the tubes. and as I stated I did recheck the level before driving it and when the plug was removed enough came out indicating it to be just a bit over full. temps were in the 40's during the two days. even my buddy Paul who knows how to build and set up rear differentials is a bit puzzled on this. and with this happening with to separate trucks all with in less than 7 months has us both thinking were over looking something. now when it happened on the K20 once the parts were replace I did tip the axle to each side for a good 1/2 hour and have not had a problem with it. at first we thought there might have been some kind of obstruction but we gutted the housing and found nothing . but have not eliminated that possibility yet on the express 3500.
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nickwarner
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Mar 23, 2013, 7:37 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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When you are doing a full-floating assembly such as this, don't use grease. The lube can't get through it. When you go to install it, first coat your clean bearings in gear lube. Put the hub on the spindle and then use the nozzle of the lube bottle to squirt oil in between the two bearing races to fill them. Then install your oiled outer bearing and spindle nut. When adjusting the bearing I like to have the tire on the hub, as it makes it easier to spin while torquing the nut and you will be able to more easily determine proper endplay. If this design uses two nuts with a lock mechanism in between them, you need to remember to recheck the endplay after torquing the outer nut as it tends to tighten it up a bit and you could end up with preloaded bearings that will burn up early.
It can help to jack up each side to let gear oil move around, but I get the best results with the method I used. All the trucks I do use full-floating axles, so I get a lot of practice with it.
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toolman0007
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Mar 23, 2013, 8:07 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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well the amount of grease used was just enough to give them a film. but advice from some one that has done something many times, And has had no issues with what was done is well taken. but it still does not explain why on two occasions both One ton rear's. I have never had any issue with 1/2 ton trucks
the right side was fine and the left never got any lube getting down the axle tube. looking at how it's put together it's obvious that the right side has more gear oil being slung at the tube opening. than the left side. and when you consider the fill hole is slightly above the bottom of the axle tubes that there should always be a certain amount with in the tubes them selves. going to make sure there are no obstructions on the left tube. take your assembly steps and as well do a half hour tip to both sides and recheck lube level. thank you for your time and your input.
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nickwarner
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Mar 23, 2013, 8:25 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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Every bearing manufacturer out there specifically instructs to never use an lubricant like grease on a bearing that is lubed with gear oil. When you do that, the gear oil is unable to lubricate the bearings and they will burn up.
The reason 1/2 ton trucks don't have this issue is they are semi-floating axles and a completely different design.
Definitely worth checking for obstructions, but the reason one side gets more lube than the other is that the ring gear points to that side. The motion of driving allows the ring gear teeth to sling oil to that side more than the other.
Hope you are able to get this one fixed up and on the road reliably.
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Discretesignals
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Mar 23, 2013, 9:39 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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Right out of the service information.
1. Lubricate the following with a light coat of high melting point Extreme Pressure bearing lubricant: ^ The outer wheel bearing ^ The inner wheel bearing ^ The outer wheel bearing cup ^ The inner wheel bearing cup ^ The axle housing 2. Install the outer bearing into the wheel hub. 3. Install the adjusting nut. 4. Install the adjusting nut to the hub using the J 2222-C. 5. Adjust the wheel bearings. 6. Install the key. 7. Install the axle nut retaining ring. 8. Install the brake drum. 9. Install the axle shaft. 10. Install the tire and wheel assembly. 11. Inspect and add axle lubricant to the axle housing, if necessary. 12. Lower the vehicle. Adjustment Preliminary Inspection Important: Ensure the brakes are fully released and do not drag. Pull or push the tire at the top back and forth in order to test the wheel bearing play. ^ Use a pry bar under the tire as an alternative. ^ If the wheel bearing adjustment is correct the movement will be barely noticeable. ^ If the movement is excessive, adjust the bearings. Adjustment Procedure ^ Tools Required - J 2222-C Wheel Bearing Nut Wrench 1. Raise the vehicle. Refer to Vehicle Lifting. 2. Remove the axle shaft. 3. Remove the hub adjuster nut retaining ring. 4. Remove the adjuster nut lock key. 5. Tighten the wheel bearing adjusting nut using the J 2222-C. Rotate the hub in the opposite direction to the way the adjuster nut is turning. Ensure the inner bearing and the seal seats against the spindle shoulder. ^ Tighten the adjusting nut to 70 Nm (52 ft. lbs.). 6. Turn the adjusting nut counterclockwise and align the closest lock key slot in the nut with the key way in the axle housing. 7. Install the adjusting nut lock key into the key way in the axle housing. 8. Install the retaining ring. 9. Install the axle shaft. 10. Inspect the lubricant level and add, if necessary. 11. Lower the vehicle. Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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nickwarner
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Mar 23, 2013, 9:52 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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this is directly from Timken
http://www.timken.com/en-us/products/lubrication/technical/Pages/FillDriveAxles.aspx
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toolman0007
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Mar 23, 2013, 10:04 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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ok we seem to have a bit of conflict as to the use of grease. given the info that Discretesignals provided with it being a pacifistic type to be used is understandable. I guess the key factor is pre lubing. I do consider the fact that the hub housing it self has room to hold lube with in it self and priming or filling that area is good advice as well. a lot of good key points have been raised in this discussion. by taking the necessary steps that have been discussed I will have it back and rolling down the road with no issues . I thank you for your time and input and believe we can consider this matter resolved
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Hammer Time
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Mar 23, 2013, 10:12 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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I'm betting the bearing were not adjusted properly.
Here is a TSB on it.
- Drive Train - Revised Wheel Bearing Adjustment Procedure
File In Section: 04 - Driveline Axle
Bulletin No.: 02-04-20-002
Date: May, 2002
SERVICE MANUAL UPDATE Subject:
Revised Wheel Bearing Adjustment Procedure
Models:
2001-2002 Chevrolet and GMC C/K and G-Van Models with 10.5 and 11.5 Inch Axles
This bulletin is being issued to revise the Wheel Bearing Adjustment procedure in the Rear Drive Axle sub-section of the Service Manual. Please replace the current information in the Service Manual with the following information.
The following information has been updated within Service Information (SI). If you are using a paper version of this Service Manual, please make a reference to this bulletin on the affected page.
Wheel Bearing Adjustment
Preliminary Inspection Important :Ensure the brakes are fully released and do not drag.
Pull or push the tire at the top back and forth in order to test the wheel bearing play. ^ Use a pry bar under the tire as an alternative. ^ If the wheel bearing adjustment is correct, the movement will be barely noticeable. ^ If the movement is excessive, adjust the bearings.
Adjustment Procedure Tools Required J 2222-C Wheel Bearing Nut Wrench 1. Raise the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in General Information. 2. Remove the axle shaft. Refer to Rear Axle Shaft and/or Gasket Replacement.
3. Remove the hub adjuster nut retaining ring.
4. Remove the adjuster nut lock key. Notice : Refer to Fastener Notice in Cautions and Notices.
5. Tighten the wheel bearing adjusting nut using the J 2222-C.
Rotate the hub in the opposite direction to the way the adjuster nut is turning.
Ensure the inner bearing and the seal seats against the spindle shoulder.
Tighten
Tighten the adjusting nut to 70 N.m (52 lb ft). 6. Turn the adjusting nut counterclockwise until the nut is loose using the J 2222-C. 7. Turn the adjusting nut clockwise until the nut contacts the bearing cone. Torque on the nut must be zero to finger tight.
8. Insert the adjusting nut lock key into the keyway using one of the following procedures: ^ If the adjusting nut slot is in alignment with the keyway in the axle spindle, insert the adjusting nut lock key into the keyway in the axle spindle. Important :Do not turn the adjusting nut more than one slot counterclockwise in order to align the adjusting nut slot with the keyway in the axle spindle. ^ If the adjusting nut slot is not aligned with the keyway in the axle spindle, turn the adjusting nut counterclockwise until the adjusting nut slot is in alignment with the keyway in the axle spindle and insert the adjusting nut lock key.
9. Install the retaining ring. 10. Install the axle shaft. Refer to Rear Axle Shaft and/or Gasket Replacement. 11. Inspect the lubricant level and add, if necessary. Refer to Lubricant Level Check. 12. Lower the vehicle.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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toolman0007
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Mar 23, 2013, 10:25 AM
Post #11 of 21
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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well as I had stated to Nick Warner the key issue is pre lubing. I do have an older manual but was not aware of the amount
of torque required for the rear nut. I have always just tightened as much as possible by hand just with the socket tool while spinning opposite direction and back off to first possible key way slot. I will be doing the tipping bit and spinning by hand, one because I think it's sound advice and two it's not like it will take much time. thanks for your time and I believe we can consider this matter resolved
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Discretesignals
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Mar 23, 2013, 10:26 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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It must be some kind of on going debate. FSM for a Dodge Dana FF.
Either way the axle fluid should have ended up in the hub, unless the oil was like molasses in winter time or you do have something obstructing the oil from getting down the tube. If you unbolt the axle shaft and slide out out 1/4 inch and tilt the axle, does fluid pour out?
edit: Just read about the torquing. Ya, if you don't preload it correctly it will burn up the bearings.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 23, 2013, 10:35 AM)
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toolman0007
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Mar 23, 2013, 10:39 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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he hee thought you were not going to give your input to this. LOL you just could not help your self. as it was pointed out about the amount of torque in previous reply. it's dully noted. and thank you for not holding my prior comments against me. as well thank you for your time.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 23, 2013, 11:04 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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Your welcome and good luck with that. We'll keep this thread open if you find something else during your repair.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 23, 2013, 11:07 AM)
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nickwarner
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Mar 23, 2013, 11:15 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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It does appear that both the truck manufacturer and the bearing manufacturer seem to contradict each other. DS said to apply grease, and according to the vehicle manufacturer he is right. I said never to do so, and according to the manufacturer of the bearings I would be. Maybe those guys need to all sit down in a room and talk before they release tech info to eliminate the confusion.
Most certainly it would need to be verified that lube oil can flow to the wheel ends for continued lubrication. The bearings being adjusted properly is also of high importance.
Saw an article in MOTOR the other day about similar differences between both car makers of different brands and spark plug makers regarding the use of anti-sieze.
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Discretesignals
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Mar 23, 2013, 11:21 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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I read that article too and still confused about it...LOL I stopped using anti-seize on plugs after reading the first article on how the grease affects the plug's ability to conduct ignition voltage.
Most of my training happens in the bathroom at work.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 23, 2013, 11:31 AM)
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Hammer Time
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Mar 23, 2013, 1:35 PM
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I was under the impression that the issue with anti-sieze is if you get some on the electrode porcelain it will cause the plug to arc back but it's no problem if you are careful and only get it on the threads.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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toolman0007
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Mar 23, 2013, 6:55 PM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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well when I drained the diff i did spray it down and blow it out real good. the condition of the old lube was not good.
when I filled it. it was about 42 out and seemed to be flowing very well. before I go putting this back together I will be
pulling the diff cover back off and re checking the left tube again just to be sure. ones filled I will be tipping the axle to check flow. trust me I DON'T want to be taking this apart again. given some of the conflicting info as a final I will be just tipping the axle even after priming the hub for 20 min each side and hand spinning the tires
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toolman0007
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Mar 23, 2013, 7:15 PM
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only time I believe it could be used is when your dealing with an aluminum head. given the two apposing metals. then again there are many variables to consider, climate and where and how the vehicle is kept
I have never had any problems getting plugs out of a steel head , and have never come across one with anti-seize on them then again there are two types one is silver colored and one is a bronze colored each stop things from seizing but have
a differant material make up and are for different applications from what I under stand
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nickwarner
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Mar 24, 2013, 10:08 AM
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Re: 1ton chevy no gear oil drivers side
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The article in MOTOR seemed to be basing the debate on the chance of overtorque and possible plating of compounds meant to stop seizing. For instance, one brand of vehicle specifically said to apply a little bit to the threads. Another said absolutely none can be used, another said that if you use it, to reduce the torque by 1/3 because otherwise you would be applying too much torque. NGK said not to do it, because they already plate a special metal onto the threads of their spark plugs that prevents corrosion. But Autolite recommended using a small amount, especially on the 5.4 3V Triton plugs. It cautioned to not get any on the ground electrode.
If you try doing the plugs on the 5.4 Triton, your lucky streak of getting old plugs out will come to an end. We consider it a success when only one or two break during removal. There are several different tool kits out to get these extracted, so if in the future you decide to attempt one you need to make sure you have that tool with you. If its a job you're doing to make a few bucks from someone, tell them upfront you cannot give them a total labor estimate until you remove all the plugs.
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Hammer Time
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Mar 24, 2013, 11:00 AM
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Yeah, the 3 valve 5.4 is exactly where I use it. I'm in the middle of doing one now. Up to 3 plugs, so far 2 came out, one broke. Soaking the rest over the weekend. I coat the new ones going in for the next guy.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Mar 24, 2013, 11:02 AM)
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